April 2008 - United/US Airways Merger Speculation and Discussion Thread [Merged]
Apr 28, 2008, 10:44 am
#76
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,686
I'm at a complete loss on what this merger would bring that looks valuable. UA has no need for any of the US West flying. In fact, maybe they reduce PHX and LAS by another 50%, immediately retire all 737s and just use US for the East "assets". Certainly the CLT hub is interesting and UA could use the Airbus aircraft. However, both of these airlines have massive labor troubles. I think CO could have helped improve the labor situation, but this would only make it worse.
Any chance LH swoops in to buy their 25% (or whatever the current foreign ownership allowance is) and put in some competent management?
Any chance LH swoops in to buy their 25% (or whatever the current foreign ownership allowance is) and put in some competent management?
Apr 28, 2008, 10:45 am
#77
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York
Programs: UA Plat, AA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 57
Reward Availability
As a USAir Dividend Miles member, this could only improve my chances of getting reward tickets. Right now, USAir ticket availability is the absolute worst.
Apr 28, 2008, 10:47 am
#78
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arlington, VA; Boston, MA
Programs: UA 2p
Posts: 284
I wonder what would happen with my USAir Bank of America debit card...would it become a UMP BoA debit card? That would be sweet! I love living in BOS/DCA right now...
Apr 28, 2008, 10:50 am
#79
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: somewhere between ORD and Willis Tower
Programs: UA MM, Premier Plat, Costco EM
Posts: 1,392
although I have to say I just booked a 60k mile envoy r/t to Europe for next February - a great deal, but I doubt US will be flying CLT-PHL-MAN come February - in fact I see an "unsecured claim" in my future ....
Apr 28, 2008, 10:57 am
#80
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: VA Platinum / QF Platinum
Posts: 179
UA + US = U-Haul
Last edited by marinersdave; Apr 28, 2008 at 11:05 am
Apr 28, 2008, 10:58 am
#81
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN or SLC (mostly)
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Posts: 220
While I'm certainly not in love with the idea of UA merging with anyone, I could at least understand the rationale behind the UA/CO combo. I feel like a UA/US combo achieves few if any of those objectives.
1. Improve South American access. Continental has a strong SA route network; US has a few flights to Central America and the Caribbean. The routes held by US have significant overlap with existing UA routes.
2. Get a real NYC hub. I know US has a strong presence at LGA, and I don't want to minimize that, but the whole benefit of combining with CO was that you could have an international to domestic *A gateway at Newark. LGA has no international (sorry, Canada) flights.
3. Get a better management team. While Nonepass is quite underwhelming, the management team at CO has been pretty strong. I can't imagine a combination with US doesn't leave Tilton in charge, and I can guarantee you if Dougie is in charge, I'll be over to the dAArkside before the merger even closes.
4. Other geographic advantages. The CO combination had the benefit of providing the new airline with two strong new hubs in IAH and EWR. US has what I would characterize as hubs in PHL, LGA, PHX, and CLT, with a strong presence in LAS and BOS. I cannot possibly imagine any rationale whereby UAUS keeps a large presence in all four major East Coast cities, and although I certainly don't love IAD, I would imagine it would stay and PHL would shrink considerably, especially with the WN presence. In the West, UAUS would have PHX, LAS, DEN, LAX, and SFO. The most likely scenario for many reasons is to significantly shrink PHX, and move pax to the other hubs. I could also see the creation of a TED HUB in LAS with the HP Airbii and gates. In the end, you're really only keeping LGA and CLT out of the four US hubs.
I just think the rush to merge is idiotic from a business standpoint and from a customer relations standpoint.
1. Improve South American access. Continental has a strong SA route network; US has a few flights to Central America and the Caribbean. The routes held by US have significant overlap with existing UA routes.
2. Get a real NYC hub. I know US has a strong presence at LGA, and I don't want to minimize that, but the whole benefit of combining with CO was that you could have an international to domestic *A gateway at Newark. LGA has no international (sorry, Canada) flights.
3. Get a better management team. While Nonepass is quite underwhelming, the management team at CO has been pretty strong. I can't imagine a combination with US doesn't leave Tilton in charge, and I can guarantee you if Dougie is in charge, I'll be over to the dAArkside before the merger even closes.
4. Other geographic advantages. The CO combination had the benefit of providing the new airline with two strong new hubs in IAH and EWR. US has what I would characterize as hubs in PHL, LGA, PHX, and CLT, with a strong presence in LAS and BOS. I cannot possibly imagine any rationale whereby UAUS keeps a large presence in all four major East Coast cities, and although I certainly don't love IAD, I would imagine it would stay and PHL would shrink considerably, especially with the WN presence. In the West, UAUS would have PHX, LAS, DEN, LAX, and SFO. The most likely scenario for many reasons is to significantly shrink PHX, and move pax to the other hubs. I could also see the creation of a TED HUB in LAS with the HP Airbii and gates. In the end, you're really only keeping LGA and CLT out of the four US hubs.
I just think the rush to merge is idiotic from a business standpoint and from a customer relations standpoint.
Apr 28, 2008, 11:06 am
#83
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
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Apr 28, 2008, 11:09 am
#84
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Apr 28, 2008, 11:11 am
#85
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The advantage is allowing more UA widebodies to go to Asia and let US metal handle Europe from the East Coast and perhaps even from ORD.
Apr 28, 2008, 11:12 am
#86
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Join Date: May 2001
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Perhaps DOJ would require that an AA/UA combo divest itself of some assets (maybe some ORD and LGA gates and maybe some slots at LHR and NRT), but I don't think there's an automatic disqualification for any potential two-airline mergers right now. I may be mistaken, but I don't see a rubber-stamp denial of even AA and UA.
Apr 28, 2008, 11:18 am
#87
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: ORD, MBS
Programs: UA Plat., 1.52 MM
Posts: 2,053
UA/US: Not so soon, no so sure
The AP reports, quoting an unidentified source the following cool-headed assessment:
The two carriers stepped up their talks after Continental Airlines Inc. caught United off guard by deciding not to pursue a deal with the UAL Corp.-owned carrier.
The source asked not to be named because of the sensitive nature of the talks. The timing of any agreement remains hard to predict, and either side also could pursue an alliance instead or simply walk away from a deal, as Continental did.
For one thing, the alliance already exists.
Second, US has been in talks with AA all that time...
The two carriers stepped up their talks after Continental Airlines Inc. caught United off guard by deciding not to pursue a deal with the UAL Corp.-owned carrier.
The source asked not to be named because of the sensitive nature of the talks. The timing of any agreement remains hard to predict, and either side also could pursue an alliance instead or simply walk away from a deal, as Continental did.
For one thing, the alliance already exists.
Second, US has been in talks with AA all that time...
Apr 28, 2008, 11:23 am
#88
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While I'm certainly not in love with the idea of UA merging with anyone, I could at least understand the rationale behind the UA/CO combo. I feel like a UA/US combo achieves few if any of those objectives.
1. Improve South American access. Continental has a strong SA route network; US has a few flights to Central America and the Caribbean. The routes held by US have significant overlap with existing UA routes.
2. Get a real NYC hub. I know US has a strong presence at LGA, and I don't want to minimize that, but the whole benefit of combining with CO was that you could have an international to domestic *A gateway at Newark. LGA has no international (sorry, Canada) flights.
3. Get a better management team. While Nonepass is quite underwhelming, the management team at CO has been pretty strong. I can't imagine a combination with US doesn't leave Tilton in charge, and I can guarantee you if Dougie is in charge, I'll be over to the dAArkside before the merger even closes.
4. Other geographic advantages. The CO combination had the benefit of providing the new airline with two strong new hubs in IAH and EWR. US has what I would characterize as hubs in PHL, LGA, PHX, and CLT, with a strong presence in LAS and BOS. I cannot possibly imagine any rationale whereby UAUS keeps a large presence in all four major East Coast cities, and although I certainly don't love IAD, I would imagine it would stay and PHL would shrink considerably, especially with the WN presence. In the West, UAUS would have PHX, LAS, DEN, LAX, and SFO. The most likely scenario for many reasons is to significantly shrink PHX, and move pax to the other hubs. I could also see the creation of a TED HUB in LAS with the HP Airbii and gates. In the end, you're really only keeping LGA and CLT out of the four US hubs.
I just think the rush to merge is idiotic from a business standpoint and from a customer relations standpoint.
1. Improve South American access. Continental has a strong SA route network; US has a few flights to Central America and the Caribbean. The routes held by US have significant overlap with existing UA routes.
2. Get a real NYC hub. I know US has a strong presence at LGA, and I don't want to minimize that, but the whole benefit of combining with CO was that you could have an international to domestic *A gateway at Newark. LGA has no international (sorry, Canada) flights.
3. Get a better management team. While Nonepass is quite underwhelming, the management team at CO has been pretty strong. I can't imagine a combination with US doesn't leave Tilton in charge, and I can guarantee you if Dougie is in charge, I'll be over to the dAArkside before the merger even closes.
4. Other geographic advantages. The CO combination had the benefit of providing the new airline with two strong new hubs in IAH and EWR. US has what I would characterize as hubs in PHL, LGA, PHX, and CLT, with a strong presence in LAS and BOS. I cannot possibly imagine any rationale whereby UAUS keeps a large presence in all four major East Coast cities, and although I certainly don't love IAD, I would imagine it would stay and PHL would shrink considerably, especially with the WN presence. In the West, UAUS would have PHX, LAS, DEN, LAX, and SFO. The most likely scenario for many reasons is to significantly shrink PHX, and move pax to the other hubs. I could also see the creation of a TED HUB in LAS with the HP Airbii and gates. In the end, you're really only keeping LGA and CLT out of the four US hubs.
I just think the rush to merge is idiotic from a business standpoint and from a customer relations standpoint.
to US Air!OK, now a brief break for the silver lining/wishful thinking segment of this post: There's a good chance that a merger with CO would have undercut many of the FF perks that make MP a far superior program to OnePass. It's not at all clear that the CO merger would have been worth those sacrifices.
End of silver lining segment: Of course there's no guarantee that MP won't deteriorate after a US merger, along with almost everything else about UA.
Apr 28, 2008, 11:37 am
#89
Join Date: May 2007
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Posts: 1,678
If they kept those orders, the fleet refresh aspect would be pretty nice. A big if, of course, but if UA dominates the merger, we keep all of UA's policies and maybe get some new planes out of the deal...
Apr 28, 2008, 11:47 am
#90
Moderator, Hertz; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Well, the one nice thing about a USAir merger is that they have a lot of next-gen aircraft on order, including the A330, a bunch of Airbii twins, and Embraer 190s.
If they kept those orders, the fleet refresh aspect would be pretty nice. A big if, of course, but if UA dominates the merger, we keep all of UA's policies and maybe get some new planes out of the deal...
If they kept those orders, the fleet refresh aspect would be pretty nice. A big if, of course, but if UA dominates the merger, we keep all of UA's policies and maybe get some new planes out of the deal...