catocony

Which will be the next international route out of IAD to be pulled? We've already lost non-stops to Paris and Amsterdam - and please, flying a 757, especially one with no E+, counts as losing the route - and now EZE goes bye-bye on April 5th.

I'm betting that we'll eventually have most of our 767/777 flights sucked out by Newark, and we'll be stuck with a crapload of 2nd-class 757s flying across the Atlantic. London and Frankfurt will remain widebodies, but anything else under 4,000nm - like Munich, Brussels, maybe Geneva and Zurich - will be 757.

I anticipate us maybe losing the Tokyo flight, and the service to Kuwait too.

schley

The Kuwait flight also services Bahrain. There is a lot of military traffic on this flight. I don't see it going away for a while, if ever. It usually is fairly full when I have taken it, as is the IAD-DXB flight.

I didn't realize there were so many cuts from IAD, I guess I should pay more attention.

Palal

BRU is supposedly a premium market, so I doubt they'll pull 3-class wide-bodies.

craz

I doubt IAD will be getting swamped with the 752s just yet, simply since CO didnt have that many to begin with and UAs arent set up as BF & Y as COs are. And Id think they would 1st want to change over all the ps planes to the new config

that said Im positive they are looking over every single flight from everywhere and determining if they can make more $$ off it if they switched where it flys from. then some places like LHR and EZE are slot regulated Airports, so its not simply OK lets throw a plane onto EWR-EZE, if CO was allowed only1 flight they probably felt IAH would workout better then EWR, now that they can play with the UA flight they might have seen the bottom line on the IAD flight and felt EWR would be able to realize more $$$

then dont forget they pulled a EWR-DUB to IAD-DUB probably for the same reason they pulled the EZE from IAD

anc-ord772

A change of gauge is not the same as cancellation of a route. Except to you and other like minded FTers perhaps.

jasondc

This seems a little dramatic. Frankly, I dont think you have much to worry about. EZE was lost to EWR, but IAD did pick up two new markets. they're not on your preferred aircraft but nevertheless they're two new markets that UA has not previously served. and Paris and Amsterdam are NOT LOST. They still are served and will most likely see upgauges/ frequency adjustments during the busy season. And all aircraft will be outfitted with E+ eventually, so that shouldnt be a concern.

I dont think you need to worry about losing any other routes.

halls120

You are correct - it isn't a route cancellation. It is, however, a capacity reduction of F and C seats, and until E+ is installed fleet wide, a reduction of this capacity.

Other than the names "United", "Mileage Plus," and E+, this is nothing more than a quietly disguised takeover of United. To call it a "merger of equals" is a laughable farce. As others have noted on other threads, during the meshing of the frequent flyer programs, the longtime United FF's are getting screwed over, while PMCO FF's are getting a better deal.

Jeff might as well stop rebranding the airline United. It isn't remotely the airline I used to fly.

BlueZebra

I agree. But it seems to be a requirement here to have a drama or two everyday!

catocony

Ask UA 1Ks out of Dulles if stating fact is being dramatic, and I don't think they'll agree. I'm looking at this strictly as a UA international flyer out of IAD. What I see is Air France upgauging big time with an A380 on IAD-CDG. What I see is United retreating by pulling a 777 and replacing it with 2 757s that I would not want to fly to Denver, much less 8-9 hours across the Atlantic.

UA elites out of Dulles are generally nervous right now. When you only have a few over 100 mainline flights a day, you tend to worry about any of them. Several guys I work with - 1Ks like me - have switched over to AF or KLM, which means they're taking a long, hard look at leave UA/*A completely and just going Delta/Sky Team.

Dulles elites are probably the least loyal to United, since we have generally gotten relegated to a cadre of United Express partners for the bulk of our flights. If the winds shift and it starts to look like we're just going to be used as a relief airport for Newark, with even fewer mainline flights and on smaller aircraft to boot, then the local transatlantic traffic - which is substantial - will move to other alliances.

jasondc

Sorry, you didnt state fact. You stated that it doesnt count and that UA doesnt really serve AMS or CDG. Fact is, they do. It might be smaller gauge, but they do, and net net they have increased the network out of IAD. Have you ever actually flown on one of the 757s in Business from IAD to Europe? It's nowhere near the same experience as the 757s you'd fly on to Denver. Lie flat seats, good service - world apart.

How do you speak for all the UA elites at Dulles? Do you really? I dont buy it. At the end of the day, UA will continue to have the most amount of nonstop flights to the most destinations that matter and people will continue to come for the convenience of the nonstop.

halls120

And they are going to lose a certain amount of high value business because they substituted an aircraft that doesn't have the combined capacity of the airframe that was taken away. OPs have already commented about shifting their business to other airlines because of this diminished capacity.

catocony

Simple math:

CO 757-International
BusinessFirst Class: 58.0" 23" 16 seats with 180 recline
Economy Class: 31.0" 17.2" 159 seats with 5 inches recline

UA 777, old configuration even
Business Class: 55.0" 20.5" 49 Standard seats
Economy Class: 31.0" 18.0" 114 seats
First Class: 78.0" 21.5" 12 Flat bed seats
Economy Plus Class: 34-36.0" 18.0" 77 seats

So, we go from ~60 First and Business seats to 16. We go from 77 E+ seats to zero. So, upgrade chances are few and far between, and thus I'm in coach with a 17 1/4 inch wide seat with 31" pitch vs 18" wide and ~35" pitch.

If it was a UA 767 instead, there's less seating, but F and C are both lie-flat, with a lot more than 16 seats. And E+ is the same, just less seats.

Anyone who flies out of Dulles regularly to Paris or Amsterdam is of course not happy about the change.

UA-NYC

Sounds like exactly what's going on with the 737 changes in Asia

ljwobker

Part of the merger and (slow) fleet refit strategy is to squeeze out the upgraders and keep the people who actually pay for F/C/Y/B fares... while this sucks for a lot of us, UACO can't really afford to care too much about those of us who want to pay for Q/V/W but fly up front...

dgcpaphd

How true!

There is no question that many of the changes to the new "United" mimic that found on Continental Airlines. After all, the CEO of the new United was the CEO of Continental Airlines for several years.

It won't be long before the airline formerly known as "the friendly skies" will have a reputation as an airline that pinches pennies at the cost of passenger comfort.

Cancellation of former United routes and hub changes are only the beginning of more surprises yet to come.
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