jhayes_1780

I can seem to find it, but this was addressed in another thread but IIRC some thoughts were:

• FA's are not GA's/CSR's, many would not know if the what allows E+ (much like if you asked the FA's any type of SWU question). Let alone if the credentials provided were accurate (say the exit row guy was crediting to another program, nor had their card).
  
• The exit row guy already used their alloted E+ (they switched seats with co-workers/family).

Anyway, as mentioned above... it seems hard to believe the elite would have not already tried to get a complimentary E+ from the GA.

canolakid

I never, ever play upgrade lottery and am never, ever disappointed! Although have never, ever said no to something that was offered above and beyond what I paid for.

freshairborne

Here's what one captain thinks, and this is from a safety standpoint as well as operational: As long as the airplane is loaded so that the center of gravity is within limits, there is no safety issue. If it were out of limits, we would be moving people around before takeoff.

Operationally, the closer the CG is to the aft CG limit, the less fuel the airplane will burn, all other things being equal. So, it does impact the W&B situation.

I see that you're probably not a regular on the UA/CO side, so here's where I'm coming from. I'm a 25 year United pilot, currently a 757/767 captain.

No (other than private) opinion on the other parts of your post


FAB

jetaway96

Yes we have the CC machine to charge for E+ even on international flights. However, we can only upgrade up to 3 pax's on the narow body airplanes and up to 10 pax's on the wide body airplanes due to W/B. This memo is part of our briefing sheet. I am not so sure about UX.

Often1

It seems more reasonable for a person with status to seek an E+ seat at booking, checkin or gate. The GA's job is to close the flight and assure ontime push. GA has a lot more to do than acommodate the whims of people who couldn't be bothered to ask on the numerous occasions before boarding. Also means pax swimming upstream at the last second, just when FA's job is to get people into seats, also so aircraft can close & push.

FA's job inflight isn't to become a mini-CS center or GA. Once inflight, the UG to E+ ought to be charged on the BOB scanner regardless of status. While I'm not opposed to people seeking a refund downstream, I can see the carrier balking because all of this costs money and, once again, pax have multiple opportunities to do this the easy way.

We can only do so much for others before they have an obligation to do for themselves.

snic

Well, if Silvers get E+ at check-in, presumably they would be in E+ on the plane, and you'll see no more of this (overcrowded E-, empty E+) than you do today.

On the other hand, some of us 2Ps/future 2Ps will not be flying UA much next year because we don't like being slapped in the face.

First

Definitely worth a scowl. I would not at all like it if someone came into my workplace, telling me/others how to do their job

Mike Jacoubowsky

Interesting that weight balance is such an issue. Does this come into play with seat assignments in general?

I'm surprised it's an issue at all with mainline aircraft. I would have thought (incorrectly) that passenger weight was a small subset of the total weight of the aircraft.

ualp

Just 'cause they're big doesn't mean they have unlimited design capabilities.

Ex: Nearly full Airbus, appx. 130 people, at 175 lb. each (not sure, but I think that's what load planning uses in the winter).
130 x 175 = 22,750 lb.
Max allowable takeoff weight of an A320 is 169,700 lb.
The passenger weight accounts for appx. 13% of that number.
Add cargo to that, forward and aft pits.
In many cases runway and performance limits limit the allowable takeoff wt. of the aircraft.
We may not be able to utilize our max certified takeoff wt.
In that case the pax load represents a higher percentage of the total weight.

How all that weight is distributed along the length of the cabin can, in fact, be an issue.
One person, here or there, shouldn't be a problem right?
The answer everyone hates .... Depends!

If load planning has it all calculated out that we're close to one of our CG limits, then Yes it could be a problem.
Reality - Are we going to crash? Highly unlikely.
However, the Feds are very particular about LEGALITIES.
Legality - If load planning calculations require that the aircraft be loaded in a particular manner, then the crew has no latitude to disregard that info.
A violation can result in hefty fines/penalties for crew and the airline.

I know all this probably doesn't do much to satisfy the OP.
But hey, that's the way it is, and he/she will just have to get over it.
"They're" not always out to get you. ( Sometimes "they" are. )
However, more likely than not, we're just trying to do our job within the boundaries of the regulations, procedures, legalities, etc.

Mike Jacoubowsky

Whatever the "legalities" are for weight distribution and other parameters, count me as one who's very happy to know you aren't willing to go beyond them. I have never been concerned about the skills and judgement of a UAL pilot (although some might benefit from thinking about how the words they use might come across when they make announcements).

Oh, right, one other thing. You mention you use 175lbs for average passenger weight in the winter. It varies from winter to summer? It would be amusing if they used 170lbs for summer weight, since that would exactly describe me. For good and bad. Trying to reduce the weight swing a bit (and not by adding to it in the summer).

mahasamatman

Yes, due to heavier clothing. See AC210-27D, table 3-1 (page 21 of the PDF). Note also that FAA average passenger weights have gone up in recent years. Appendix 2 (Source of Standard Average Weights in this AC) is also a good read.

ualp

Won't have to worry about me.
I'm one of "the quiet ones".

Rode in the back too many times with some blowhard on the PA.
You get talked to death as it is with all the required PAs.
Folks just wanna watch the monitors, listen to music, do work whatever.
As Joe Friday used to say, "Just the facts ma'am"
That's 'bout all you'll get out of me, unless we have a delay or irregularity that I need to update folks on.

Mike Jacoubowsky

Sorry, I wasn't talking about length or number of announcements, but rather how things are said. On my IAD-OAK-SFO flight, for example, passengers weren't too happy about the unscheduled, lengthy fuel stop at OAK (required because SFO was too congested to land at the time and we were running low) and the pilot announced that "It's going to take some time to figure out how much fuel to load." This at 2am, already 2.5 hours late, and after telling passengers they wouldn't be allowed to leave the plane in Oakland.

Passengers cannot be expected to know (without telling them) that you cannot land a fully-loaded 767... the call from many parts of the cabin was "Why the (expletive) don't you just fill it up?" A brief explanation would have been helpful for many (should I have asked for compensation/reward for quieting down my section of the plane?).

It doesn't even matter if what you have to tell the passengers is too technical. And if you have to, there's always Dean Martin's example from Airport (when talking to the kid about the plane's changing position relative to the stars). You're the captain. People have to believe you.

ualp

Yep ............
Might've been good not to say much of anything.
Just, "We're stopping in OAK, we'll get gas, then we're going to SFO."

Something tells me folks are gonna b!tch regardless of what you tell them, brief explanation or not.
Humans. Nasty animals! I try to keep my fingers out of the cage as much as possible.

aztimm

It was years (probably 3-4) ago when I paid for E+, and I did it at a kiosk at PHX.

When I checked-in at HKG, the agent said nothing about any E+ being available for any segments of this trip, nor paying for any of it. I don't recall seeing any UA kiosks at HKG, but perhaps I missed that.



That said, both the gate agents and flight attendants initially said that it was a completely full flight before/during/after boarding. Actually even when E- was full and we saw the empty E+ cabin, the FA said that we were still waiting on more pax to come (who never showed). After seeing this for 5+ min (which seems far longer when cramped on a plane), most pax got extremely restless.
I guess actually telling the truth is beyond the normal duties of United employees.


I have compiled all of this feedback and sent it on to my preferred desk at US. Certainly if UA is this firm with doling out exit rows and/or E+, I want US to be the same. I've actually heard stories of UA elites being upgraded to F on US, which really irks me after all of this.


Most of the passengers seated around me grumbled that they would NEVER fly United again. I certainly will do my best to avoid them. Heck, even on LH/BD I was able to move around the cabin to whatever empty seats I saw, including exit rows.