nelsoninbangkok

Utterly ridiculous. The issues that a 45 min flight delay can cause a network system are enormous. United should be looking into this no matter if there is a pilot's contract. It is bad customer service. Yes, the airlines are still supposed to be in the customer service industry aren't they or have I lived in Asia too long?

pdquick

Actually, the way a union contract works is that there's a grievance procedure for disputes. It avoids litigation.

The pilot needs to be fed. You don't want someone landing the plane while jittery from hunger. But there were probably ways to accomplish that without delaying the flight. If it's a one-off, fine. If it's a consistent failure, there's a grievance procedure for that. Fly the plane, eat a spare first class meal, and file a grievance.

aluminumdriver

If this is the best you can reply with, you have no idea what you're talking about wrt to planes/maintenance/what is required, when it's required, why it might be required, etc...so not really worth my time trying to explain it to you.

True, we have a grievance process. Unfortunately, it is long and ardous from what I hear. 99% of the time there is no spare FC meal, so really, this pilot's only other option is to go into the terminal and buy a meal. Probably what I would have done, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't have been a delay still, just maybe not as long.

AD

Bicostal

He had a Chicken Ceasar salad - just no roll and brownie. Did he need the additional 400 claories and 28 gms of sugar?

His "principle" cost 150 people hours of inconvenience.

aluminumdriver

First, we don't know the full story, only the OP's account. That means one side of a story. From the OP's account, I agree it could have been handled maybe better, but not to the degree this thread has morphed into.

Second, since when does 20 min late equate to HOURS OF INCONVENIENCE?? Embelllish much?????

AD

fastair

Roll and brownie are easily accessable calories. Conversion into blood glucose is rapid. Chicken Caesar salad does not have the same immediate impact. When a diabetic goes into shock, do they give them simple sugars, or proteins/fiber?

Again, your arguement would be at MAX (100% full) under 150 people, and it coust none of them hours, but 20 min from their expected arrival. When one says it cost 150 people hours, you are saying each of the people was cost hours, as you used "people", instead of the "group as a whole" as a term. Please, try not to use yellow journalism to make your point, argue with realistic statements instead of ones that are false on the face value.

Liars figure and figures lie, lets stick to accurate unbiased numbers.

~tc~

If the pilot was THAT diabetic where the speed of the uptake is critical, he wouldn't pass the physical and be flying.

... and he would need orange juice, not something that needs to be chewed.

PanHam

Bolding mine.

And people still seem to be conveniently avoiding every thread here that has whined about the absence of nuts, a meal item, and the snack basket (even on flights where the main meal is substantial enough and most people do not need to be eating so few hours afterward).

How many FlyerTalkers have tantrumed over 400 calories and 28 gms of sugar? Search the threads - they're there.

Yes, I concede one has to factor in the fact that the pilot is expected to fly the airplane, while passengers, obviously, are not, but equally childish behavior has been witnessed in many threads here, from passengers.

Again - I say, have a little empathy.

ryan182

If by "tantrumed" you mean complain after the fact then yes many have been upset and complained about the lack of a service item they rightfully expected. Have you found anyone who has demanded the plane remain at the gate until such catering items were provided and thus delayed the flight? I suspect not.

ualp

An item may be deferrable, however it may not be prudent or safe in ALL cases to fly with that particular item deferred.
That's where the Capt's judgement comes in.

Ex: I was given an aircraft that had the F/O's airspeed indicator deferred inop.
Received a maintenance release with the deferral on it.

Good to go?
As you said, an item that "airline and regulators agree is deferable".
Willing to bet your life on it?
You want your pilot crew to fly with that one?
How about if I add that it was a classic "Dark and stormy night"?

In this particular case it was low IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) at my departure station, as well as at my destination.
Late night departure, and we were going to be IMC for most of the flight.
We'd have to shoot an ILS if we returned to our departure station and we'd be shooting an ILS at our destination, to minimums.
Most diversion stations along our route would also require ILS approaches.

You want to guess what my decision was?
I'll save you the time.
I refused the airplane and we took a delay.

I had full confidence in the decision and my PIC authority to do so.
I also had full confidence that my union would back me fully should anyone take issue with my decision.
I know for a fact that this is not the case at many other companies.
Pilot pushing and the threat of being fired for refusing an aircraft that "airline and regulators agree is deferable" is alive and well at many other companies.

Again, willing to bet your life on it?

I agree with AD. You really don't have a clear understanding of the MEL/deferral process.

pinniped

I kind of get a pilot refusing to take a plane with, ya know, actual flying stuff inoperable.

But a brownie?

ryan182

not just a brownie, there was supposed to be a roll as well.

N1120A

The pilot was working to rule - its his absolute right. It might not be the best way to do it, as it looks bad to passengers, but I wouldn't be bothered.

There is a grievance procedure, but you can sue once you exhaust administrative remedies (basically, said grievance procedure - depending on the situation).

transportbiz

To your first point, there was a meal, the pilot wasn't going to go into a low-sugar induced coma. It was missing a roll, and dessert.

To your second point, SMI/J isn't a pilot, so let's hope to hell he isn't flying that plane.

Even if he were, what makes you think SMI/J has any control over threads on this board?

Finally plussing 10 to the idea that the passengers are only concerned about themselves? I'm seeing the Pilot as the most egocentric piece of this puzzle.

Yes it is disrespecting customers. Anyone that shows up at an appointment 20 minutes late is disrespecting the other participants. At least that's what I was taught growing up. In the world of always tardy airlines, yeah it's probably expected, I don't think that bolsters your position much.

Why does this always get blown up to an entire meal? I think there would be a lot more support for the pilot on this thread if it were actually an entire meal. No, one wants anyone to be deprived of nourishment.

I'm am not one to bash unions, and have said nothing negative about unions (which by the way there isn't really one involved here) nor is this a commentary that pilots are self-centered. This one pilot went about a dispute in a poor manner, one that I am sure even he thought was a bad idea in retrospect, at least I hope he did.

Your disdain for your employer is where I am confused. Upholding an action so childish as this, because no one want to go to bat for the "company", because they have given enough. All of that, just gives me the creeps. I've has some shi**y jobs in my life (literally), but I did them to the best of my ability, and never complained. But, I sure as hell kept looking. I had a boss that was a total tyrant, his main motto was "any day that ends in Y is a workday", he penalized me for taking time off to go to my Grand Mother's funeral. I stayed until I found something else (8 months), but I still produced the best product I could, because in the end my NAME was on it. If you hate your company so much, feel they are treating you with such disdain, LEAVE.

But don't make me late (something I take pride in not being) because you didn't get a brownie or roll, and you're not going to take it anymore.

aluminumdriver

First point, I have stated before that I think the captain could have handled it differently, so I won't state it again. I think he probably thought twice about it afterwards as well. He was within his rights to make sure he had a complete meal, but he should have self-helped in the terminal IMO.

The talk about unions is not directed at you, but at the 14 other pages full of posts that certain FTer's use to bash unions for whatever reason they can find. We're not just replying to your post, but to the thread as a whole.

Who has disdain for my company? I've never said that, nor any pilot on this thread that I'm aware of. We have stated why we have a CBA, a union, and why we hold the company to the CBA, just as they do to us. I have no positive feelings towards our current management, and based on all the gripes on this forum, I don't see you all having good things to say either. It's always easy to say just quit and work elsewhere, when it's not that easy a solution. Why should a pilot with 30 years invested in United have to quit due to something Mr. Smisek is doing who's been here less than a year?

You have a right to be irked by being delayed, no matter what the reason, I had 6 straight flights on Delta delayed for me recently. I was somewhat irked as well. But, I also keep things in perspective, a word that is missing a lot of times from this forum.

Hopefully your next flight is less interesting.

AD