Now if UA were to bring back to the auto Y/B (maybe M for 1Ks and 1P+) that would be an enhancement from current UA policy. It rewards the higher fare paying customers.

So, the 75K new level doesn't hit till MID 2012, is that correct? So, I have more than 18 months to finish my 1MM mileage runs and complete the move to AA!

It also erodes F revenue. Who would pay an F fare if they could get an M-Up?

I wonder if they're struggling with this one. I get the sense that UA has more F-paying pax than CO ever did, so using CO's approach with the combined carrier may be significant revenue erosion. UA has always preferred to keep it on a market-by-market basis, so they can dump F inventory in markets where it doesn't sell well.

They created a 1P+ (CO Plat), and CO created a Plat+ (1K).

It's obvious what they're doing next year.

Agree and fair points. UA does seem to have significant F payers especially out of their hubs. Again, just an idea for "enhancements" in the future...

And CO can do a limited version of the same by restricting the ZE inventory on specific segments. When I buy a TPA-ONT H-Up that includes the IAD-LAX/SFO/SAN segment that UA probably would rather sell for more money to someone else. Under CO's system I'd probably stay in Y on that segment - at least until much closer to departure - than with the UA system.

I'm not completely convinced that the CO approach ruins revenue. It mostly covers domestic markets where paid premium levels probably aren't as high. Rather than just getting minimal whY fares CO is driving incrementally higher revenue from some passengers who otherwise wouldn't be able to cover the F fare under their company's travel policies.
Correct.
Agreed.

Did you see this on the website?

Not bad.

I was just looking at this forum and I have to make a comment that a lot of you UA elites don't realize just how *good* you have it on UA compared to AA-especially when it comes to domestic travel.

You don't have to pay for mileage upgrades copay, you don't have to pay for e500s anymore, you get hundreds of dollars of e-certs for the smallest complaints (sorry just how I feel), and have a huge widebody domestic fleet that dramatically increases your chance of an upgrade to C or F.

A few CR-1's may not be earned next year, and a lot of you are acting like the airline has been turned on top of its head. Anyone switching to AA right now would be wonderful, especially since we're continuing to endure capacity cuts in non-hub locations, and I'm sure your business would be appreciated.

But wow-I think that it could have been a lot worse for you guys considering the merger, I am sure more changes to come, but really, this is so minimal. Just my two cents-but you're welcome to switch to AA

Correct. If you want to punish them, you need to switch alliances, like going to the dAArk side. I hear they have cookies (freshly baked chocolate chip). ;)

You mean 1K, I assume.

I read it as they would be shelling out more CR1s to 1Ks, since a bunch of CO folks who would qualify for 1K would be earning them too. Like I said, if a bunch of them are expiring unused thanks to UDU, why mint a ton more of them to go unused?

I also wonder if this is the preface to changing how p.s. fits into the new UA world. Yeah, I know, high RASM flights... but CO seemed to do fine flying people into EWR.

Weeeeelllll...

http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...d-second/page1

UA beats CO on RASM. I would assume CO beats UA on the CASM side, though, given that the profits are comparable in size but CO is a considerably smaller airline.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/uni...lts-2010-10-21

As a MM who's halfway to 2MM, have to admit I'm in the ' new benefits' aren't really benefits.

For those who have said you're happy w/ 1P for life due to MM, we have no idea if that's actually going to be the case. We could get dropped to Silver, which would really suck because unlike CO, our 1MM was based on BIS, not BIS, cc spend, etc. And unless you're doing 75K, you're now 1P- for life if by chance they do keep the 1P.

And there's no guarantee that the 2 CR1s MMs receive each Jan will continue in the future. In fact I'd be stunned if they did.

I also feel for the folk who get their 1K on segments. Contrary to popular belief in this forum, not all are doing mileage runs. A # of people do travel short hops for bizness and don't do int'l trips.

Not overly thrilled about the CR1s drop & the way the SWUs are, but others have mentioed the problems w/ those so I won't repeat.

If my MM gets me dropped down to Silver and UA does drop E+, then yup those will be the straws that break the camel's back for me.

Cheers.

You could probably just pick one now and post all your flight-based EQMs to that and achieve the same. Where this might be useful is non-flight-based EQMs (such as Choices, Chase VISA EQMs, ...)

Jeffrey (Jeff) T. Foland
Executive Vice President and President, Mileage Plus Holdings, LLC
77 West Wacker Drive
Chicago, IL 60601

Write in, people! It can't hurt!

I know there's also a PO Box to write to, but I wrote to this address for something else a few months ago and got a snail-mail letter back in about a week...But at that time it was to Graham Atkinson, not Jeff Foland.

Other execs here:

http://ir.unitedcontinentalholdings....irol-govmanage

Well there are extreme examples in all scenarios. Just like when I bought a CO ticket $155 all in SMF-MEM RT B-Up and was immediately seated in F. They weren't exactly expecting to make up the difference with their first class drink charges (though we did buy one with a chit). ;)

I think looking at it overall, most people booking an H-Up in that TPA-ONT market are probably booking TPA-DEN-ONT which was probably UA's intent.

As for CO's approach, I disagree with your assessment that it "covers domestic markets where paid premium levels probably aren't as high." The problem with the approach, IMO, is that it covers every domestic market. In fact, based on a current thread on the CO board, there appears to be somewhat of an expectation that a customer on a B-Up will get their upgrade.

That is not necessarily the case, as it's not something CO can uniformly deliver. It is also a side-effect of their approach.

Anyhow, with a larger subset of customers paying for C or F, it's going to be interesting to see how this one plays out. The fact that CO is issuing CR1s may be an indicator of how they foresee the revenue spread.

Exactly my issue as that is a flight I do a LOT and often pay a tad more on UA than Virgin or Southwest. (In many cases, in fact, LAX-OAK would be more convenient for me but I go out of my way and pay for bart to stay on UA) I also often fly LAX-SFO-ACV and back, and that is an EXPENSIVE round trip with low mileage but at least its a 4 segment round trip.

I'm not liking this 120 eqs at all (and I've already written 1k voice to complain). Not that it really matters as next year I'll be 2P anyway but it looked like next year I may be able to push for 1P and hopefully 1K?

So let me understand, you are upset because someone who has given more business to United and flown more miles than you will be given an upgrade instead of you???

Still no email here :mad: after all who cares. I don't really want to see it.

I knew that the merger would only bring negative with it. I have redeemed a great most of my award miles and I am ready to redeem whatever is left in my account to leave them a big Zero in it before the value goes down. I expect it will before long so why not use them now.

Everybody should protest by redeeming all of their award miles. They would have to give away all these seats without getting revenue. It would hurt them big time.

I would say to all: do like me. Redeem all your award miles on International First Class getting the most off your miles that you can!

Get the new Continited to go bust!!

Now another thing. What will happen to Million Milers. Are we going to need the 75K/year to keep our lifetime 1P?

Are they going to devalue the lifetime benefit to Silver and scrap Gold?

Are they going to scrap E+? Will 1PMMs have to pay for sitting in E+?

When will we find out?

:mad::td::mad::td::mad::td::mad:

Well, we call CO AirIAH/AirCLE/AirEWR for a reason.

Expect more "cute" moves. The CO bean counters need some lessons because of their limited experience running world airline. :eek::eek:

+1. It's typically more costly to hit 1K via EQS than EQM - in both $ and time. Not sure why the segment flyer is being punished. The CR-1 situation sucks too but it is what it is; everyone except the extreme 1K flyers take the hit here together.

The 120 EQS is more of a slap in the face because UA is telling me even though I spend more time and $ than some other 1Ks who fly 100k miles, I'm suddenly not as worthy. :td:

I can address that, although it's not my post you're responding to. Flying more miles does not necessarily equate to giving more business. Someone who flies weekly OMA-ORD-OMA, for example, is giving UA a lot more business than someone making, say, two round trips ORD-SYD. Of course, this is a fundamental problem with almost every FFP in existence, the assumption that miles are meaningful (for a program to make sense, reward should be based on $ spent and status should be based on number of trips -- not segments, but trips).

My only complaint is that I got the email, and as a former 1P, currently 2P, future non-elite, I don't see any reason to continue to strive for any of the lower level statuses. I realize I'm not in the majority, but I don't give two hoots about free flights; I want to fly in a comfortable seat at a reasonable price (the premium for F, even over full-Y, is far in excess of the increased benefit of flying F). That went down in flames when UDU was introduced and upgrades started going out willy-nilly. So far, I don't see any reason to concentrate on UA anymore except for Channel 9 (I'm not going to buy E+ access for a flight if I can't see the available seats first).

Actually that would be flown more miles, not necessarily given more revenue. There's a difference ;)

Cheers.

Hard to say anything that hasn't already been said. While the loss of CR1's won't affect me that much, the increase in EQS is a slap in the face.

More than anything "lost" by the change - I think it's a sign of things to come.

While I will not rush out to find a new airline of choice, should E+ disappear any time soon, there would be no reason to continue any allegiance to UAL.

I'm not going back over 340+ posts to see, but can I assume United PR has run for cover and not been heard from since this trash was released?

Change was inevitable. Anyone who believed otherwise was a fool.

In my view, this is a devaluation, but not as bad as it could have been. At least 6 SWUs are staying. E+ will be the deal breaker. Until we find out about that, the rest is just detail.

"UA + CO + TSA = Friendly Skies" - correction - UA + CO + TSA (nude scan & groping) = fewer passengers and a big fat monetary loss to UA in the next year or so - maybe even another bankruptcy.
-

I'm wondering if the segment is more of a ding on CO frequent fliers. Just a conjecture...not sure I have much to back that up.

Correct although one could hope that they're just absorbing all comments and may make adjustments later on?!?! One can hope!

You point out that you are new, so let's take these one at a time:

Maybe in 2012, but it isn't good in 2011, because we will still have 6 SWU's to work through. And you should note that for the entire year of 2010, NOT just the end of the year, it's been virtually impossible to confirm an international SWU upgrade from Y to C (the only one that matters) in advance. Despite doing virtually as much international travel in 2010 as in 2009, I am going to end up with 4 unused SWU's.

If availability is zero for, say, an entire month or even 3 months -- as it is for many international non-stop routes out of SFO -- there will be no increase in availability.

I think many would say that the elimination of DEQM promotions in 2010 would more than achieve this goal, without going even further to punish 1k's who qualify on segments.

First of all, 1k is nowhere near the top rung. As you watch all your upgrades going to people who are GS or who pay $50 extra, you'll soon realize that. A cheap red carpet does not make one top rung! Finally, on the two domestic routes where upgrades really matter: SFO/LAX-JFK, there are no upgrades on demand.

Secondly, 75k is WAY worse than 10k, which is what we used to have to fly to get regional upgrades. That is the proper comparison.

Maybe in 2012 when it goes into effect. Having 1k and GS ahead of you (along with all the folks who paid to upgrade) is no small bucket of people, as you will soon realize.

This is redoing previous points, so I'll not comment here.

Thanks for the contribution, I guess we'll have to see who votes with their feet. As one of those international flyers that UA claims to value so much, if I'm paying for business, I'm now choosing based on non-elite status factors. But then I was planning on doing that before, the removal of upgrade possibilities on ps flights (which is a big consequence of this action) only cements in my mind the correctness of my earlier decision.

The "Best of Both Worlds"...

http://www.locutus.no/images/LocutusOfBorg.jpg

Perhaps Jeff should change his speech to "I am Jeff Smisek of Borg, your frequent flyer program as you know it, is over. Under the Borg there are no 1Ks, only drones. Resistance is futile!"

I would disagree. Changing the 1K level to 120 EQS is certainly not a "domestic travel lens". If anything, it's the opposite. Want 1K, don't fly a bunch of domestic short hops.

I agree on the 75K pseudo elite level being a nod to COs flyers.

That is because they haven't said anything about the MMF benefits. You are making an assumption about what they will do.

This is a mixed bag for me. UDU's fill-in quite a bit of the short-haul gap for me but the short-haul F product on UA is pretty much bare-bones. One thing I learned about UDU's is that if I don't buy my ticket before the 100-hour window, the chance of my upgrade clearing, even with many F seats available, puts me at 1-6 this year. The other part that I don't know how to evaluate yet is that there is no DEQM. Combined with the 50% cut or more in CR1's and likely the loss of both DEQM-qualifed 1K's AND the inflation of upgrade instruments earned as a result, my UG success rate has been somewhat disappointing for both transcons and short-hauls. I think the combination will both open up more UDU inventory and enable some of the companion UG's to clear, offsetting some of the CR-1 losses.

I'm not happy with the loss of the CR1's but I'm also not at all happy with the results of DEQM's. If it doesn't equalize some in 2011, I'll look elsewhere. The loss of E+ would be the final straw which I am bracing myself for after the spin of today's announcement.

No need to go over them. Just look at

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/misc....sted&t=1148667

to see who posted how often. Search for "United PR" and you'll see just one post. But clearly they got an ear full in return.

I still say that the biggest erosion of benefits for renewal 1Ks is having SWU deposited once you hit 1K and having them expire 12 months later. CR-1s are bad, this is worse.

love it
 

I LOVE this search link, never knew it was there. I imagine one can simple insert the THREAD ID in at the end?

There are still a few small earnings differences in various programs. If I were flying TATL on LH in a low fare bucket I'd credit to UA, for example, to get the best value for those points once the programs combine.

So elite programs should be completely revenue based, right? After all, that's what really deserves to be rewarded. The profit generated, not the total number of miles flown, is what the airlines really want to reward.

But they don't, for various reasons. Instead they approximate based on miles and segments flown. It isn't perfect but it works pretty well most of the time.
Just click on the number of replies in the forum index page to get it for any particular thread.

You think too good.

Yes. They allow combined EQM and EQS. But the thing is only a small portion of people is both UA and CO elite, which they can enjoy benefits from both sides.

For instance, you are UA elite (but not CO). You will not use your CO OP GM account for flying because you will not get UDU as well as RDM bonus...

So what is the good thing about it?

Interesting set of reactions on the CR1s

UA/CO 75K-99.999K flyers get CR1 (they probably consider this a plus)

UA/CO flyers >150K get more CR1s than before (If they can use all of them then likely to consider as a plus)

CO flyers now get CR1s -- assume they will consider that a plus

CR1 earning is back to YTD not quarterly approach -- seasonal flyers will probably consider that a plus

So the problem group is UA 100K-124.999, 125K-149.999K which will get 4 or 2 less CR1s respectively

This donut group (of which I belong) has not done as well but others have gain benefits in this realignment. Not what i would call a total disaster (end of the world).

Also for those that keep talking about a total CO takeover. Seems like the plan coming forward (CR1s, SWU on w or higher fares, ... ) has mostly an UA feel. The benies at 75K seems to be approach to keep the CO Plats happier. Pretty much what I would expect in a merger, a little of this, a little of that, some individual changes but overall a much more MP feel.

No one has appeared to spot the obvious strategy. They will just reduce or do away with EQM on lower fares codes.

Nothing for the cheapskates!

It sounds like it's only every 25k if you're already 1P Plat or higher that year.

This is a serious slap in the face for those of us who made 1K for the first time this year. Look at the old rules (6+ months ago):

- earn 2 CR-1's by flying 10k miles per quarter, even if it's the quarter you make 1K and you flew before you made 1K
- the next full year, earn 2 CR-1's every quarter you fly 10k miles

Under those rules, I could have earned 2 CR-1s this quarter and up to 8 more next year by flying a total of 40k miles. Now, I have to fly 75k next year to earn ANY. I went from up to 10 to 0.

Combine that with increasingly worthless SWUs and the fact that E+ and UDU are going to be harder to get on UA metal now that CO elites are folded in, and this just makes it all a complete waste.

It's pretty much a gut punch to me since I make 1K on EQS this year...and I guess so much for CR1's, at least in my case. If my travel pattern next year was the same I'd end up a 1P+ :td:

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Did you and channa really just agree on something?!? ;)

I thought that AA was the only one that counted CC spend. Is the same really true for CO as well?

Also, I agree with the other posters who say that they use CR-1s for some transcons and mid cons as well. It is very nice to have the assurance of a CR-1 when you are on an A319 at a busy time on a popular route.