Well, I'd see the logic as this: once the new UA frequent flyer plan consists of (CO folks AND UA folks), if they stuck to UA's model of handing out CR-1s, they'd be handing out a lot more CR-1s (everyone on CO and UA at 50,000+).

If they are seeing a number of them going unused already due to UDU, I would think they would go "why exactly should we increase the number of these we hand out, anyway? So people can sell them on eBay?"

Doubt it. AA guards top tier pretty religiously, and they expect to see you fly them for a while before they even comp you Gold, unless they really really like the money you are spending on plane fare.

I have been thinking about it and DO see one silver lining:

As my travel needs have evolved I am buying more international business class fares. One of the reasons I bought them on United was to makes sure I earn my CR1s each quarter. So I suppose in way this new change benefits me as I can spend my business class money on fly on Lufthansa, SWISS or ANA, etc. and still earn my CR1s.

They may ding me for a domestic $200 F-upgrade here or there the way CO always has to their top tier, but they will be losing ~$10,000-$15,000 in premium cabin international fares to earn that.

And they think WE are the stupid ones!!!! :rolleyes:

As I predicted many months ago, 1Ks will not gain much from this merger, but have a lot to lose.

Folks, the worst has yet to come.

1) Elimination of E+ because CO revenue dept likes to squeeze few more seats

2) Domestic UDU will get a hit because of buy-ups, whatever you call it. It has been reported that CO sells F seat for tens of dollars while Plat elites sit in back, without E+.

3) Int'l C/F award inventory will largely disappear, since CO is very stingy in making BF awards available.

4) Int'l upgrade inventory will be cut further. Current CO domestic F buy-up will be extended to int'l BF. Good luck with your SWUs.

Expect more such "ENHANCEMENT" from Jeff.

CO always spins that word whenever there is benefit cut.

:td: A very unhappy 1K Segment flyer here. I guess I'll just have to look at how my 125EQS would benefit Southwest or /AADelta out of BWI next year. :td:

Jeff: Over the course of the year following our merger, we’ll be working to form a single airline. We’ll keep you informed as we progress with our integration. You’ll see a number of changes in the months ahead and I think you’ll like them.

Not liking. :td:

Please sir, what will become of E+ and MM lifetime 1P and 2 CR-1s / year?

Jeff: BOHICA!

UA + CO + TSA = Friendly Skies

I have three letters of the alphabet to say to you: A, T and I.

http://www.united.com/press/detail/0,6862,59599,00.html

(emphasis added)

http://www.forbes.com/2010/11/11/uni...newsvideo.html

The good news is you can punish UA by flying US on your TATL trips. I believe they are excluded from this ATI agreement. That is good news, right? ;)

I'm surprised we didn't see anything about reciprocal upgrades using CR-1s and SWUs on each other's airline. I'm a UA 1K but would like to use the SWUs on flights to GUM using CO Mike.

Also, not pleased with the decrease in CR-1s as I like to use those when I travel TRANSCON with my wife.

I see no real enhancement for 1K fliers on UA. They really need to take a closer look at what benefits they could provide whether it's SWUs on any fare etc....

I think this decision certainly gives rise to more concern that E+ may be limited to international flights only and possibly continuing the abhord practice on CO of selling upgrades while elites are pending for UDU/EUA!

As I have said many times before, it will be REVENUE AT ALL COSTS for the new co.

10$ for a buyup is worth more than decades of loyatly from an elite. It will be preferred to get 100's in revenue, before giving loyal flyers insight into upgrades. Flyers WILL defect because of it, and actually I don't think the airline will care.

I'm definitely disappointed by the CR-1 situation...especially since p.s. is my main route (12-24x a year depending on my schedule). I wish they would open up UDU to the p.s. route cause for me, that will definitely dull the pain of this new change.

You know how everyone on here has said "the biggest reason i fly UA is for E+"? Well, assuming United does keep E+ (and I think they will), today's announcement is essentially calling us on that statement.

As much as I am displeased with the loss of four CR-1s, it's not going to cause me to change my travel habits...other than fly Virgin or Jetblue SFO-JFK. And as someone who flies about 125K a year, there is no way I'm going to do multiple MRs just to get two extra CR-1s. So the notion of CR1s being a carrot for incremental flying seems unlikely to me.

But if E+ goes away, so does my loyalty.

They do listen, and mostly they do not act (conclusion: they do not care), however they occasionally do act (CR-1 s in 2010). So they seem to care, but where they value the loyalty is the key.

Thus, key question: Does new management care more or less than UA did about loyalty?

Based on the events of today, they don't seem to place as much value on our loyalty as before.

Meanwhile, FlyerTalk serves unlimited whine to United.


Seriously? HUGE?

Correct, and this further proves what I've suspected in other threads - CO is small-time, smallball management. They are fixated by a domestic travel lens, while UA is very much a worldwide international airline. Nickel-diming EQS instead of seeking ways of using their international route network to greater advantage.

Reducing perks for high-mile travelers will only encourage folks to book away on high-mile travel itineraries.

The fact CO now has inspired folks to even window-shopping the competition for their next transpac is a poor result.

The 75K new pseudo elite level is too cute by a half, another silly nod to COs "legacy", a disastrous mistake.

As already mentioned here, it kind of makes me scratch my head at how this is clearly de-incentivizing someone to make 1K on segments while the mileage requirement stays the same. Especially since, as a segment flyer myself who will do 115 segments this year and has no idea yet whether I will be 115 or be closer to 100-108 next year, I know that I/my company spends more $ to reach on segments than I would by booking fewer trips that get more EQMs.

From my perspective, the best approach now is to consider whether it's better to hit 90 segments on UA comfortably, then pull the plug there and then focus on getting status on another airline with the remainder, or whether to keep 1K in 2012.

I don't see it that way, as I look at the introduction of the 75k tier as a serious devaluation to the lifetime 1P benefit for MMFs (at least those who don't qualify for a 75k+ tier). Of course, this could be easily rectified by giving MMFs lifetime 75k tier. Either way, I'm surprised only 4-5 people so far in this thread have even mentioned the devaluation of benefits for MMFs.


I actually still use all my CR1s, so this is a pretty serious devaluation for me. They're still quite useful for upgrades even on UDU-eligble flights when high loads are predictable, as well as for companion travel.


I don't see how tracking 10,000 miles over a set 3-month period is at all confusing, especially since most 1Ks will pass 10k BIS every quarter anyway. Even the occasional 1K who doesn't fly 125k+ and misses 10k BIS in one quarter of the year would still be better off than the new program. And to put it in perspective, to actually be worse off under the old system (i.e., earning just 2 CR1s), a current qualifying 1K would have to fly at least 70k in one quarter... I really don't think that applies to many of us.


They're phasing out the MD80s, so unlike UA/CO, at least they're moving in the right direction! :p


I was actually discussing this with a coworker/fellow 1K last week when we were discussing flying ANA's new biz or other *A partners to Japan, since neither of us are fans of UA's new int'l C - but I mentioned I wanted to keep earning UA BIS. The devaluation of the lifetime 1P MMF benefit and CR1 distribution certainly makes this choice easier.

So is your point is that Unitedental will NOT lose money when I buy a Z or fare D (or equivilent) on LH or ANA rather than UA?

Well at least I will have a better chance of gettin true business class soft product...

Perhaps you can document the upside of these changes, or else your "observation" is about as useful as your claims of other posts in this thread

Yes. For many fliers it's no different than simply eliminating CR1s completely.

The thing in FT, 1K usually do most of the talking and 1P do most of the reading :)

As 1P, you have to understand is they have basically created 1P+.

If you compare the current "Enhancement" with Delta SkyMiles Masterplan, you will see DL Gold do not have SkyTeam lounge (in a 4-tier elite system).

It is a doubt that if United will drop *G to *S (which you will lose all extra baggage allowance as well as lounge access).

The good thing is the rest of *A carrier do not do that (put 2nd tier in a lower alliance elite level).

United PR at its best
 

I go out of my way and take two flights on most trips to stay on United.
I defend the industry, United, and run interference between crasy passengers and flight attendants, gate personal etc. I endure SFO delays and DEN also. I spend more time in the air and on the ground rather than go to Southwest, Alaska, or Delta. Last week I flew in and out of SFO 3 times in 3 days. Today I'm at 98.5 segments !!! and now it's going to be 120 !!!!!!.

Well Jeff I give, I will no longer accept this as the way to continue my company and leisure travel. I'll just sit in the back of Alaska and go direct to SEATTLE, sit in the back of Delta and go direct to SALT LAKE CITY, sit in the back of US AIR and go direct to PHOENIX, and YES !! go direct from ONTARIO to CHICAGO on &%#& SOUTHWEST !!!!!

This is NOT good customer service Mr. Smisek, and folks I'm afaid it's only the begining of the decline of both airlines. When you have something as great as Virgin America to compete with it won't be long before they have the rest of your routes. Good Luck Gentleman

FLY HIGH , SC

For comparison, last year I requalified for EXP at the end of May. My AA systemwides were deposited and are good through the end of February, 2011. That's 19 months to use them (8). I consider that a pretty decent benefit on the AA side. I see a number of posters have reported a 12 month expiration for UA systemwides deposited under the new program. This is not at all like the AA program. Very, very different. Are fare classes going to be relaxed for UA systemwides?

No. EXPs get unlimited domestic upgrades (but not companions--you'll need to buy upgrades for them). You'll find our upgrade rates for domestic upgrades are generally pretty good. I've missed one this year and not a single miss in 2008 and 2009--about 107 cleared upgrades, and that doesn't count 100% on systemwides for 9 years running. It helps that AA does not have a first class cabin the size of an A319 or A320--just more seats for everyone.

My goodness so much negativity and pessimism in this thread. I find myself not nearly as upset as most of you on the CR1's..sure it's a take away but it could have been much worse.. like fewer SWU's. I'm also fine with the new 75k level.... I plan on being 1K so the new level doesn't really make much difference to me.

One disclaimer.. I have always earned 1K on EQMs, not EQS. I would probably be upset if I were an EQS 1K as it's a pretty steep increase.

I don't understand how so many are predicting armageddon based on a relatively minor take away in 1K benefits (fewer CR1's). Way too pessimistic.

Many have wondered about what will happen to the MM benefit of two CR1's per year.. while I don't know for sure, I'm very optimistic that those will continue. Others have speculated/desired that MM should be given some kind of priority in the upgrade pecking order. MM does nothing for upgrade priority now and I seriously doubt that will change. And it would be absolutely shocking to me if suddenly MM's were given the new 75k status level for life. I'd most certainly welcome it, but it just isn't going to happen.

All in all I'm OK with these changes.

My general reaction (because of my own situation) was essentially "eh."

I've been 1K lite the past several years. Because there was no double EQM this year, I will revert back to 1P.

It is unlikely that I will be flying enough in the forseeable future to be
1K (perhaps ever again).

So, the loss of the CR1s doesn't mean anything to me for the next several years (or perhaps forever). And, if there are fewer with high status than me (and I recognize that there will now be a new class of 1P likely with higher status), perhaps the UDU will work for me.

I am actually curious to see how the UDUs work out of/into HNL for 1Ps--up to now I have always used CR1s.

If I were a 1K again, however, I would be unhappy, as the CR1s were important to me.

All that being said, I have just one final comment (which is not meant as a criticism of anything posted here): Over the last 28 years, because of Mileage Plus, Mrs. hawaiisloth and I have travelled all over the world on vacation, generally in first class, for free. Many, many, many free trips. I have, during much of that time, been able to upgrade my paid business travel--for free. First class isn't what it once was (what is), but the benefits I have gotten from Mileage Plus have been huge, and I have never been someone who pays (even on business) anything but the cheapest fares on UA I can find. So, if Mileage Plus went away tomorrow, I am still very, very thankful for what I have gotten out of it.

I agree. This is not HUGE. The loss of 4 CR-1s is disappointing, but ultimately rewards those who fly more. Besides, with UDU, I hardly use CR-1s anymore.

You would use CR-1s if you lived in New York.

Nope. It is still horribly misleading and inaccurate.

:confused:
If they kept the old UA system then no one under 10K would have CR1s, right?
If you bother to actually understand this program rather than simply accepting the rhetoric/FUD being spewed here you might realize that it doesn't actually work that way.
Sure, you can buy up the fare difference today from your paid fare to the lowest available forward cabin fare. If you think folks are going to be handing over thousands of dollars at OLCI for the upgrade then I think you're quite mistaken.

Actually it is UA that offers UFC on international routes at a significant discount, not CO.

As I understand it, assuming it is an ATI-covered route they pool and share the revenue. There might be some bias in the sharing proportions (I have no idea if there is or not) but it isn't nearly as bad as if you bought a ticket on CX or AA or DL.

Check out this FB group: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=...07461875989550

I just joined.

:eek:
How are the US Envoy seats on storage? Is there a good place to stow your nose? (after cutting it off to spite your face)

But it could have been much better.

Only got through the first 3 pages, but I have to work now, so...

No one else uses their metal BIS for calculating benefits. I'm hoping that the new lifetime will be based on all EQMs, with *S at 1MM and *G at 2MM. And that the totals will be retroactive. I can dream, right?

The abundance of instruments is because (a) lots more were given out last year with double DEQM and the bonus elite choice, and (b) there's never any upgrade availability any more.

I don't see how the changes affect 2P flyers at all. Same upgrade priority, same (i.e. none) upgrade instruments.

With a huge hub at EWR, I doubt that's the case.

Unlikely, but possible... the backlash got CR1s reinstated when they were going to be eliminated with the introduction of co-pays.

Yeah, I'm sure the rest of the future changes are all going to be pure upside baby.

The best we can hope for are things being retained, like E+. That's not pessimism, that's realism.

Agree. The biggest hit here is on folks like me who fly ~ 105-110k per year and are Million Milers. We are taking a double hit: 4 CR1s and a level down for our lifetime status.

Well I'm at ~1.3 million on UA. 700k til 2MM and whatever benefits are left there.

Screw that, I'm ready to buy other Star carriers' business class and still get the CR1s but not the MM status miles.

And you know what they say: once your eye starts to wander....

I hadn't thought of this. If UA reserves *Gold for 75K and drops 50K folk to *Silver that to me would be almost as big a loss as if they were to drop E+. Being *Gold is a HUGE advantage when flying INTL on *Partners.

Not likely. CO and UA both have *G at 50K, and DL is lowering SkyTeam ElitePlus to 50K next year.

If people are unhappy with the "enhancements", they should say something to United. Facebook, Twitter, 1Kvoice, here... I'm certainly doing so.

Or San Francisco. Or Los Angeles.

Tim

If the new UA keeps the CO policy intact, those people who fly 50 short flights on Y/B fares will be getting instant upgrades to first class, out-trumping those vying for an upgrade on a discounted fare using a CR-1 or SWU.

I'll add my unhappiness from a 1Ps perspective - not excited about this 75k level that gets higher upgrade priority (as I don't fly enough to hit that level).:td: Guess I should be happy I did pretty well with UDU this year...

I use them on every transcon or mid-con.

Did they create a 1P+ or did they simply give out a few crumbs to those on CO who were at the top earned level at 75k while there?

It's surprising to me that, in the *A world, there's relative standardization of *S & *G (AC apparently being an exception, allowing *G at a lower threshold if I recall correctly?), but nothing for *U ("Ultimate" for lack of a better term at the moment). The 50k+ EQM flyer is out there in a sea of uncertainty compared to their lesser cousins.

Another possibility here is that they're just floating stuff out there, really early (a full year ahead of time, when have they done that before?), to see what flies and what doesn't.

Oh, one thing I did choke on in that announcement- 120EQS for 1K. To my way of thinking, the threshold for miles should be higher and the threshold for EQS lower, if you wanted to make it an equivalent "accomplishment" for paid flying. What are they afraid of? The cheapest way to get 1K on the EQS plan is not only painful, but costly. 60 round trips on a cheap corridor, figuring the cheapest possible flights... let's say SFO-LAX because I'm familiar with that... 60 round trips at $120 each for $7200. And that's terribly unrealistic; more likely half of the flights are going to be in the $170-$220 range. You can achieve 1K at 100k EQMs considerably cheaper than that.

I thought about that too but I think it depends where you are flying to. If you live in SFO/LAX, p.s. is only useful for getting to NY (now that you can't really connect to anywhere from NY).

Whereas if you live in NY, if you are flying anywhere on the west coast or beyond (including Asia), p.s. makes a lot of sense, and you'd be silly to instead fly something like JFK-IAD-SFO, even in domestic F without having to use CR-1s.