Folks, its been ages since ive posted almost a year or more maybe.... but Ive been with you all this time....

Like some or many of you for this matter I am upset with united's new use it or loose it policy which my travel agent summarized to me as this:
Ticket has No value after travel dates if not used or changed with applicable change fee and fare on or before original date of travel

so the question has to be asked.. Can i have a non-refunable ticket say for $400 on 10/1/02, and the travel date is coming up and with no need to make any future travel arrangements at this time, so in effect i am risking loosing all ticket value as the calender rolls past that day. Can i theoretically call united tell them I need to buy a full fare ticket and I'd like to apply the 400 towards it minus the change fee. Then a couple of days later, call back and say i changed my mind and ask for all the value of the full fare back??

ps as a 1p i have been able to go stanby for the last 10 days or so with no fee, but I am always given the "you know i should charge you for this" line. I almost want to say fine, but everytime you get me there late due to misconnects or mech failures i will charge you and end up ahead. I wrote Customer service a note on the whole stanby issue. I urge you to do the same.

The $100 standby fee is scheduled to take effect 1/1/03. There's no charge on UA for standby from now to 12/31/02 if permitted by the fare basis of the ticket you purchased.

Applying your non-refundable to a refundable should not work if they execute the rules correctly. The non-refundable part remains non-refundable, plus tickets with multi-fare basis codes are supposed to take on the most restrictive rules of the various codes, meaning your new ticket might also expire if not changed before the date of travel.

I am still waiting for the airlines to clarify the rules because what is there now seems confusing in some respects. But the rules seem to say that you cannot even apply the value to a refundable ticket, only to another non-refundable ticket.

Yes, you cannot apply the non-refundable amount to a refundable ticket. Otherwise you would be converting "non refundable" into "refundable." This has always been the case, I thought.

Is there a way around this?

I always thought (except on AA) that you could use a nonrefundable ticket towards a refundable one, but the original nonrefundable value remains nonrefundable. (So I could apply an unused Q fare ticket towards the purchase of a Y, B, or M... but I just couldn't get the whole value of that Y, B, or M refunded)?

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"Would you convey my compliments to the purist who reads your proofs and tell him or her that I write in a sort of broken-down patois which is something like the way a Swiss waiter talks, and that when I split an
infinitive, d*** it, I split it so that it will stay split."
- Raymond Chandler, to the editor of the Atlantic Monthly, 1947

More Room Throughout Coach: the Website of Free Miles and Free Markets

If this were the case with the new rules, Gleff, then all we would have to do not to "lose it" would be to buy a Y ticket, any Y ticket, and have no financial loss. I don't think the new rules are like this. I think they don't let you do this anymore.

Actually, you CAN apply a non-ref to a ref ticket. But if/ when you ask for a refund, the non-refundable ammount of the original ticket will stick and you will only get back the difference.

I don't want to complicate things but these scenario have real time possibilites.
EX note fares have nothing to do with current reality)
T-class ticket (non refundable)ORD-IND $95
don't use this ticket but before flight leaves purchase a refundable class ORD-IND $235
Later purchase new T-class ORD-IND now $110, and refund $125?
or- just trade in the refundable ticket for another (higher priced) T-class ticket?
All this really hurts by betz cells.

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JerseyJoe

Typical fare rule with comments:

3. Penalties:PENALTIES: FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER 01OCT 02 CANCELLATIONS TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. NOTE - FARES NOT USED OR NOT CHANGED ON/BEFORE THE TICKETED DEPARTURE DATE ARE INVALID AND HAVE NO VALUE.


yup, understood...


OTHER FARES ON THE SAME TICKET THAT ARE HALF ROUND TRIP COMBINED WITH THE UNUSED FARE ARE ALSO INVALID AND HAVE NO VALUE. CHANGES CHARGE USD 100.00 FOR REISSUE/UNTICKETED PTA. NOTE - SERVICE CHARGE APPLIES FOR CHANGES TO AN UNTICKETED PTA OR ISSUED TICKET. 1.ON/PRIOR TO THE TICKETED DEPARTURE DATE - VOLUNTARY REROUTING OF UNUSED TICKET IS PERMITTED TO ANY NEW UA FARE FOR BOTH DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL.

doesn't mention non-refundable only, so presumably, reading so far, you could turn your non-ref into a new ticket, lose $100 but keep the value in the form of a refundable ticket, right? You can't get the non refundable money back, but since it's in a Y fare, you can change it any way you want with no further penalties, presumably, thereby mitigating the "lose it" problem, right?

Let's read on and make sure this isn't contradicted anywhere else...

THE VALUE OF THE UNUSED TICKET SHOULD BE SHOWN IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX OF THE NEW TICKET AS A NON-REF AMOUNT IF IT IS GREATER THAN THE NON- REF/SERVICE CHARGE AMOUNT THAT NORMALLY WOULD APPLY TO THE NEW TICKET. THE NEW ITINERARY MAY BE OF EQUAL OR HIGHER VALUE OR LOWER VALUE THAN PREVIOUS ITINERARY. IF OF LOWER VALUE--THE RESIDUAL VALUE WILL BE GIVEN TO THE PASSENGER IN THE FORM OF A NONREF UA TRAVEL CERTIFICATE OR MCO VALID ONLY ON UA FLIGHTS. TICKETS AT THESE FARES MUST BE REISSUED. FARES COMBINED END-TO-END ON THE TICKET/THAT IS FARES THAT COULD STAND ALONE IF ON ANOTHER TICKET/ MAY BE REROUTED SEPARATELY IF DESIRED. 2.WHEN THESE FARES ARE COMBINED WITH HALF OF RT FARES OR ON AN END-TO-END BASIS TO CREATE A RT/ CT/OJ OR OTHER MULTI SEGMENT ITINERARY--CHANGES TO OTHER THAN THE ORIGINATING FLIGHT MAY BE MADE ANYTIME ON/PRIOR TO THE FARE COMPONENT DEPARTURE DATE. THESE CHANGES MAY BE WITHOUT REGARD TO ADVANCE PURCHASE REQUIREMENTS PROVIDED THERE IS NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/ STOPOVER POINTS AND THE CHANGE MEETS THE MIN/ MAX STAY REQUIREMENT OF THE FARE. IF THESE FARES ARE COMBINED END-TO-END WITH OTHER FARES AND CHANGES TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION/STOPOVER POINTS ARE NEEDED-- THE NEW FARES MUST MEET THE ADV RES/TKTG OF THE NEW FARE. THE REMAINING UNCHANGED STAND ALONE ITINERARY MAY REMAIN VALID AND BE USED AS TICKETED IF DESIRED. ALL CHANGES REQUIRE TICKET REISSUE. TICKET MUST BE REISSUED AND SERVICE CHARGE ADDITIONAL FARE COLLECTED WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS CHANGED OR ON THE ORIGINAL FARE COMPONENT DEPARTURE DATE WHICHEVER OCCURS FIRST. NOTE 1-IF ORIGINAL CONTINUING/RETURN FARE COMPONENT WAS FOR PEAK DAY TRAVEL PASSENGER MAY CHANGE TO ANY DAY FOR ONLY USD 100.00 SERVICE CHARGE. IF ORIGINAL CONTINUING/RETURN WAS FOR OFF-PEAK DAY OF TRAVEL-- PASSENGER MUST UPGRADE TO ANY CURRENTLY OPEN FOR SALE COMBINABLE FARE WITH ADD COLLECT PLUS USD 100.00 SERVICE CHARGE. NO REFUND OR TRAVEL CERTIFICATE IF NEW FARE IS LOWER. NOTE 2-IF AFTER THE TICKET IS PURCHASED AND ON OR BEFORE THE ORIGINAL DEPARTURE DATE THE PASSENGER CHANGES THE CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHT OR DATE AND IS UNABLE TO MEET THE MIN/MAX STAY REQUIREMENTS OF THE FARE THE PSGR MUST UPGRADE THE ENTIRE RT/CT/OJ ITINERARY INCLUDING PREVIOUSLY FLOWN SEGMENTS TO ANY APPLICABLE FARE THAT MEETS THE MIN/MAX NEEDS OF THE CHANGED ITINERARY. NO CHANGE PERMITTED TO ORIGIN/ DESTINATION/STOPOVER PTS. ADVANCED PURCHASE REQUIREMENTS WILL BE WAIVED AND NO REFUND WILL BE MADE OR TRAVEL CERTIFICATE ISSUED IF NEW RT/CT/OJ FARE IS LOWER THAN THE ORIGINAL FARE. THE NEW FARE REMAINS NON REFUNDABLE. NOTE 3-AFTER EACH TICKETED DEPARTURE DATE-- A. NO CHANGES PERMITTED TO NON REFUNDABLE FARES THAT WERE NOT USED AND TO ANY FARES HALF ROUND TRIP COMBINED ON THE TICKET WITH THOSE FARES. B. ALL FARES HALF ROUND TRIP COMBINED WITH UNUSED FARES THAT WERE NOT CHANGED ON OR PRIOR TO DEPARTURE DATE HAVE NO VALUE. C. FARES COMBINED ON TICKET ON AN END-TO-END BASIS/FARES THAT COULD STAND ALONE/ ARE STILL VALID. D. SAME DAY STANDBY NOT PERMITTED FOR FARES HAVING NO VALUE. 3.VIA UA PSGRS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TKTS MAY STANDBY FOR EALIER/LATER SAME-DAY FLTS. BETWEEN CITY PAIRS. IN ADDITION TO THE ORIGINAL AIRPORT OF DEPARTURE/ARRIVAL PASSENGERS MAY CHECK IN AND STANDBY ON UA FLIGHTS TO/FROM AIRPORTS LISTED BELOW UNLESS RESTRICTED BY THE AIRPORT PROVISIONS OF THE FARE-- CITY AIRPORT CHI CGX/ORD/MDW NYC JFK/LGA WAS DCA/IAD 4. SAME DAY STANDBY WILL BE AT NO ADDITIONAL COST FOR TRAVEL ON/BEFORE 31 DEC 02. FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER JANUARY 1 2003 A USD 100.00 SERVICE CHARGE/CHANGE FEE ON THESE FARES WILL APPLY FOR STANDBY TRAVEL ON TICKETED DAY OF DEPARTURE. IF THE PASSENGER MISSES THE FLIGHT AND PRESENTS HIMSELF/HERSELF AT THE UA DEPARTURE AIRPORT TICKET COUNTER AFTER THE CLOSE OUT OF THE SCHEDULED FLIGHT AND NO LATER THAN 2 HOURS AFTER THE SCHEDULED DEPARTURE TIME-- THE PASSENGER WILL BE ACCOMMODATED ON THE NEXT AVAILABLE UA FLIGHT AND THE SERVICE CHARGE/ CHANGE FEE WILL BE WAIVED. 5. IF PASSENGER ON COMPANION FARES....ALL COMPANION FARE TICKETS MUST BE PRESENTED AT THE SAME TIME FOR ANY CHANGES.


So I guess you can (as I read this) do the following:

1. get a non ref ticket, say IAD-SFO for $300.

2. cancel the itinerary buy calling UA before departure. Tell them you want to apply the ticket to a Y fare, say IAD-ORD for $600.

3. UA will issue a new Y ticket, apply $200 to this new ticket, and there will be some sort of documentation reading that of the $600 fare, $200 is non refundable.

4. Now, with that ticket, you have a credit with UA and will no longer "lose it" beyond the $100 you already lost. Yes, you can't get the $200 back, but you could concievably change this IAD-ORD ticket, apply it to something else, etc., and you will not pay an additional $100 for these changes ever again.

Is parking non ref tickets this way a reasonable strategy??

It sounds just right to me. The key is that UA (unlike AA) allows non-refundable tickets to be applied to the purchase of refundable tickets. Although the non-ref amount remains non-ref, the other fare rules of the refundable fare apply.

It would be much simpler, if they would just issue a travel certificate (or MCO) when you cancel a non-ref ticket for the value less $100. Then you'd have a year to apply the value without making false bookings in Y or B.

Charles

LAX UA 1K

Your solution is so simple its scary. Please update your resume and send it to United. I think they might need a new CEO real soon

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JerseyJoe

I know other airlines don't allow this and I am very surprised that UA leaves this loophole. (So far).

Way too easy, and way too customer-focused. No offense, but you'd fail the first round of interviews at UA.

I appreciate the vote of confidence. But what if I am seeking a long-term position!?!

I wrote AA with just this suggestion---saying I would not object to the new rules at all if they would go to something like this.

It all goes to prove the dolts running the big 6 aren't really interested in whether people are calling to cancel or not. they're interested in extorting multiple change fees [by forcing you to re-ticket at the moment of cancellation, which leaves you open to yet more fees if your plans aren't really set yet] or 100% penalty...