waterfalls123

Well, they're hiring pilots here at United. They have some published minimums on the ual.com website, but you'd never get hired at any major with those minimums as it is too competitive. I think they're basically looking for people with a 4 year degree, 1000's of hours of experience and years of flying turbojet aircraft, with a clean record, of course- first year pay is around $32,000/year.

Lightman7

Are there any differences to you between flying UA mainline and flying TED flights? Does the increased percentage of time consumed by takeoff and landing make it more enjoyable since you get to do something, or does the ability to travel to farther destinations (even if you only see them for a day) trump that?

What is UA's policy on pilot turnaround time? How long do you get to stay at a destination before doing your next flight? Does UA generally hold to these minimum times, or do you get more than minimum layovers on average?

Thanks again!

Lightman7

Oh, and maybe you could ask the mods to change the thread to "Ask the United Pilots" to keep it UA relevant - I too would hate to see this redirected to travelbuzz, since the most of the pilots who have recently joined and are participating (both here and channel 9) are UA pilots.

prestonh

Great topic!

I've heard from my uncle (a retired UA 747 pilot) and others that UA's policy is to climb out 'hot'. After experiencing a few other carriers lately, I've noticed that UA planes seem to get to altitude faster. Can someone explain what the differences are in rate of climb, flight times, and overall operational efficiencies between slower and faster climbs? How much discretion does the FAA give on rate of climb? How much discretion does the individual crew have on rate of climb on UA?

waterfalls123

The TED flights are A320 flights so I don't fly Ted. I can't imagine there would be much of a difference from the pilot's standpoint as it is the same airplane with simply more seats in it.

As far as the increased takeoffs and landings, it depends on pilot preference. Some guys like lots of takeoffs and landings, some guys would rather do one long leg per day. That's why some pilots may choose to fly international widebody vs. domestic narrowbody, for example. It's all personal preference.


There's no policy about pilot turnaround time. The tasks that we are required to accomplish during a typical turn are not the most restrictive time-wise. It normally takes longer for the passengers to deplane, get the cabin cleaned, load and unload luggage. and reboard than it does to do our stuff, assuming nothing unusual is going on.

Our minimum layovers lengths at the completion of a duty period are governed by the FAA and our Union contract. Personally, I think the FAA rest requirements are not adequate and need to be changed, but thankfully ALPA (our Union) is able to negotiate more conservative minimum rest periods.

It's not too often that we're scheduled for "minimum rest" (see previous paragraph), however on days where the weather is poor or there are maintenance issues or other delays, our scheduled 12 hour layover can easily turn into a "minimum rest" layover. That's why sometimes early morning flights are delayed. If the pilots get in late the previous night and are scheduled for an early morning departure the next morning, it's possible that they may not get the minimum amount of rest required overnight and the next morning's flight has to be delayed in order to give the pilots enough legal rest.

We bid our schedules monthly based upon our seniority, and that seniority determines lots of things, one of which being where we layover and for how long. For example, a 737 pilot might have relatives in Philadelphia and Washington and could try to bid a schedule based upon his seniority for long layovers in those particular cities so he can visit his family or friends. He may or may not get those layovers, but if he's senior enough, he'll have a good chance. A junior guy on the 757/767 fleet may get stuck with a lot of short Des Moines layovers in January instead of 24 hour layovers in Honolulu! Seniority is important!

Overall, however, getting the days off you want (weekends, holidays, etc.), and as many of them as possible, is what most pilots bid for. After a couple of years, it really doesn't matter if we're laying over in Omaha or Orlando- they all start to look the same after a while.

GoingAway

From the pilot's perspective, do you prefer having the same plane for the day/trip or is it better to move between aircraft during your shift to lend variety or something else?

freshairborne

>>>Are there any differences to you between flying UA mainline and flying TED flights? Does the increased percentage of time consumed by takeoff and landing make it more enjoyable since you get to do something, or does the ability to travel to farther destinations (even if you only see them for a day) trump that?

What is UA's policy on pilot turnaround time? How long do you get to stay at a destination before doing your next flight? Does UA generally hold to these minimum times, or do you get more than minimum layovers on average?

Thanks again!<<<

Warning: a lot of tounge-in-cheek follows, but there is some thread of truth in here!


TED is Airbus A-320 aircraft exclusively, and we also use 320s as well as A-319s for mainline flying. The 319 is nearly the same cockpit as the 320, so we can be type-rated on 319/320 as a single type. That's also similar with the 757 and 767, same type rating, but there are bigger differences.

I flew both TED and mainline since TED's beginning, up until 4 months ago, when I trained on the 757 and 767.

With the advent of the "low-cost carriers" or in our case, "low-cost operation" (LCO) travel has become affordable to those whom it previously was not. As inexperienced travelers, some don't know what to expect, and are not happy with cramped quarters, little or no food, no free food, anyway, stuffy cabins, etc, and can let their upbringing show. In short, the quality of passenger tends to be commensurate with the cost of a ticket, and it can be like a tailgate party the night before the big game. A lot of potential kids' college money gets spent at the airport bar. The gate agents and flight attendants usually have to deal with them, though. We just get to hear the stories.

'Nuff said?

One old adage goes something like, "the time in the cockpit is large stretches of boredom punctuated with moments of stark horror", or some such thing, certainly, not true to those extremes, but also not entirely without merit. more succinctly put, takeoffs, approaches, and landings are more fun than cruise, especially in "sporty" weather. When flying TED, and the Shuttle before it, a lot of legs in a day could make a 14 hour day go by a lot quicker than, say, the 11 PM flight from Honolulu to Denver does. That one's a double-toothpick flight (eyelid props).

Most layovers of less than 20 hours, that is to say, most layovers, are at an airport hotel, so the excitement factor is usually pretty low, unless you like to work out at the hotel's workout room for 4 hours or watch airplanes take off and land from your hotel room window. Fortunately, with cost-cutting measures at every turn, we seem to get a lot of those rooms.

When I get a nice downtown layover, though, I usually make the most of it. If I'm gonna be away from my family, I might as well see all I can! Layovers are as often fun as boring. The entire sequence of flying and layovers generally put my car in the company parking lot for about 90 hours a week. The upside is that we can get nice stretches of days off. Seniority being the great equalizer, I tend to work weekends and do my weekend stuff on weekdays. Can you say "short lift line?"

The desired turnaround times are almost always restricted by other than pilots. The vast majority of our preflight work is done before we get to the airplane, so it's a matter of exterior visual inspections, cockpit setup, last-minute aircraft maintenance status checks, etc. We do our actual flight planning in the first hour before our first flight, and either in a flight planning room or while in flight prior to the upcoming leg if we're looking at a quick turnaround or airplane swap. Did you know that we might fly 3 or 4 different aircraft in one day?


As has been mentioned in the CH 9 thread, I think, we are bound by lots of time constraints in duty time as well as flight time. In domestic operations, with a two-pilot crew, we can't be scheduled more than 8 hours in the plane, off the blocks, in a 24 hour period. that's oversimplified, but that's the jist. Also, no more than 14 hours on duty per day. no more than 30 hours of flight time in a 7 day period. No more than 89 hours, or 95 with 737s, A-319, and A-320 crews, in a month. And no more than 1000 hours a year. Fitting layovers, duty times, airplane changes, vacations, etc. is a logistical nightmare, and all I know is, I'm either legal and safe, or I don't fly, even if I'm going to miss a (RARE!) 30 hour layover in Jackson Hole, WY (I can fit my snowboard in the cockpit, by the way).

Maybe another UA pilot can elaborate on a few other points?


Freshairborne

waterfalls123

I'm not sure what your uncle is referring to, but I've never flown the 747. I've flown the A320 and the 737 and both fleets have a standard climb profile that we follow for every takeoff, unless we're departing from a noise sensitive runway. In that case, we have a couple of different climb profiles that we use depending upon the situation.

There's no FAA restriction, nor UAL restriction, that I know of concerning maximum rate of climb associated with normal flight. Our rate of climb is simply dependant upon the aircraft's weight, atmospheric conditions, and the amount of power used. We normally want to climb as fast as we can to our most economical cruise altitude. In the lower altitudes in the 737, the resulting climb rate is about 2000-4000 feet per minute, again depending upon conditions. In the higher altitudes, the climb rate decreases, sometimes to only several hundred feet per minute if we're particularly heavy trying to reach a high altitude.

waterfalls123

We normally want to keep the same airplane. Switching airplanes is referred to as "the bag drag" and is typically undesirable.

freshairborne

>>>I've heard from my uncle (a retired UA 747 pilot) and others that UA's policy is to climb out 'hot'. After experiencing a few other carriers lately, I've noticed that UA planes seem to get to altitude faster. Can someone explain what the differences are in rate of climb, flight times, and overall operational efficiencies between slower and faster climbs? How much discretion does the FAA give on rate of climb? How much discretion does the individual crew have on rate of climb on UA?<<<


As a technique, flying a departure that will climb us into a headwind will usually be more efficient if we climb at a lower climb rate, which will result in a higher airspeed. That gives more distance per unit of time in a lesser headwind. It is not that black-and-white, since many other factors come into play. so, if there's a rippin' (aviation term) tailwind up there, I'll usually, ATC permitting, hold a slower airspeed, which will result in a higher climb rate.

Similarly, sometimes the quickest, most efficient way from point A to point B is not a straight line, but one that arcs around a rippin' jetstream that would otherwise lower groundspeed into the "really boring" range.

Fresh

HaeMaker

Here is a UA specific question...

Are there any upgrades in the cockpit planned with the interior upgrades for the new business class seat?

Where is United on electronic flight bag deployment?

osxanalyst

What, is UA going to replace the FA's with robots?

waterfalls123

We're getting GPS on the 737's.

The Airbus fleets has been supposed to get it now for about 3 or 4 years now, I think. We'd love to have it, that's for sure.

freshairborne

There are no plans for upgrades to our cockpits beyond the Electronic Flight Bag, and that's been on the agenda for 8 years. We're as much in the dark there as you.

Fresh

GoingAway

what is the electronic flight bag and what does/will it do for you?