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-   -   What is the future of Hong Kong in the United’s Asia Route Network? Alternatives? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/2081340-what-future-hong-kong-united-s-asia-route-network-alternatives.html)

lsquare Dec 28, 2022 1:02 pm


Originally Posted by jsloan (Post 34871740)
SFO is 1500 miles out of the way for a traveler coming from EWR, and 1000 miles out of the way for someone coming from ORD.

​​​​​​I hear ya, but Russia isn't going to reopen its airspace anytime soon. Until the Ukraine War is over, I doubt there will be any international discussion about it. It seems like AY has moved on and will funnel traffic to DOH? I think UA will have to figure something else out.


Originally Posted by Longboater (Post 34871742)
Depends on demand. At this point, I am not even sure ORD-HKG would be profitable, even with the 787-9. Better focus on filling 77Ws at SFO.

W​as it even profitable ​​​​​​pre-COVID?

Longboater Dec 28, 2022 1:10 pm


Originally Posted by lsquare (Post 34871764)
​​​​​​I hear ya, but Russia isn't going to reopen its airspace anytime soon. Until the Ukraine War is over, I doubt there will be any international discussion about it. It seems like AY has moved on and will funnel traffic to DOH? I think UA will have to figure something else out.



W​as it even profitable ​​​​​​pre-COVID?

Once upon a time it was double daily on 747-400s. Of course, that was before the merger. HKG demand was in decline BEFORE the pandemic due to the HKG protests against the extradition law. It is basically another PRC city now with one country two systems pretty much dead. But where has that demand gone? SIN has been the prime beneficiary.

lsquare Dec 28, 2022 1:16 pm


Originally Posted by Longboater (Post 34871784)
Once upon a time it was double daily on 747-400s. Of course, that was before the merger. HKG demand was in decline BEFORE the pandemic due to the HKG protests against the extradition law. It is basically another PRC city now with one country two systems pretty much dead. But where has that demand gone? SIN has been the prime beneficiary.

I meant ORD-HKG.

On the plus side, the protests meant more elbow room in places that were always crowded. I honestly think HK will come back simply because the PRC will not allow the city to become irrelevant. Chinese economic power continues to increase despite the negative news headlines.

wilp888 Dec 28, 2022 1:43 pm

United is going back to 2x daily SFO-HKG with UA869 resuming on 3/25/23 and HKG-SFO with UA878 resuming on on 3/26/23.

lsquare Dec 28, 2022 1:44 pm


Originally Posted by wilp888 (Post 34871881)
United is going back to 2x daily SFO-HKG with UA869 resuming on 3/25/23 and HKG-SFO with UA878 resuming on on 3/26/23.

Confirmed?

wilp888 Dec 28, 2022 2:01 pm

You can book on united.com right now.

JimInOhio Dec 28, 2022 2:04 pm


Originally Posted by lsquare (Post 34871733)
I would prefer SFO-HKG to go 2x daily. People in the rest of the US can always connect at SFO. With two dailies, it should be good enough to allow people to get to HK.
​​​​​​

No, they can't. There are all kinds of places east of the Rockies, particularly east of the Mississippi, that have flights to ORD but not SFO.

lsquare Dec 28, 2022 2:07 pm


Originally Posted by JimInOhio (Post 34871941)
No, they can't. There are all kinds of places east of the Rockies, particularly east of the Mississippi, that have flights to ORD but not SFO.

Thanks for the correction! Wouldn't it be easier for UA to add connecting flights to SFO? Otherwise, how will you solve the Russian airspace problem?

m.y Dec 28, 2022 2:09 pm


Originally Posted by lsquare (Post 34871885)
Confirmed?

I do see discount fare buckets (L/R/P) available for SFO-HKG on united.com, which suggest it is a real start, vs the placeholder flights for SFO-PEK where only full fare (B/O/J) is for sale.

smxflyer Dec 28, 2022 2:10 pm

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/28/us-w...or-covid-.html

Looks like Hong Kong is included in this. Could put a damper on demand.


All airline passengers two years of age and older originating from China, Hong Kong or Macau will be required to get tested for Covid two days before their departure to the U.S.

jsloan Dec 28, 2022 2:19 pm


Originally Posted by lsquare (Post 34871949)
Thanks for the correction! Wouldn't it be easier for UA to add connecting flights to SFO? Otherwise, how will you solve the Russian airspace problem?

You would solve the Russian airspace problem by not overflying Russia. EWR-ADK-HKG is 8574 statute miles, only about 500 miles longer than the nonstop. ORD-ADK-KHG is 8143 statute miles, only about 350 more than the nonstop. Both of those routes avoid Kamchatka as well as North Korea.

Or, if people are going to connect anyway, you connect at NRT, which is a much, much better experience than connecting at SFO and is hundreds of miles shorter to boot.

Adding a bunch of transcontinental flights to SFO to connect the few travelers who happen to want to go to HKG, just so that you can support 2x SFO-HKG, is a solution in search of a problem.

lsquare Dec 28, 2022 2:48 pm


Originally Posted by jsloan (Post 34871988)
You would solve the Russian airspace problem by not overflying Russia. EWR-ADK-HKG is 8574 statute miles, only about 500 miles longer than the nonstop. ORD-ADK-KHG is 8143 statute miles, only about 350 more than the nonstop. Both of those routes avoid Kamchatka as well as North Korea.

Or, if people are going to connect anyway, you connect at NRT, which is a much, much better experience than connecting at SFO and is hundreds of miles shorter to boot.

Adding a bunch of transcontinental flights to SFO to connect the few travelers who happen to want to go to HKG, just so that you can support 2x SFO-HKG, is a solution in search of a problem.

Has ADK ever been used as a refueling stop?

Didn't UA say something about ​​​​​​their desire to go back to 2x daily from SFO last year or even in 2020 given their investments in HKG?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't take off and landing the most fuel-intensive and also the most dangerous in terms of safety?


Originally Posted by smxflyer (Post 34871961)
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/28/us-w...or-covid-.html

Looks like Hong Kong is included in this. Could put a damper on demand.

Doh! Can I take a RAT with those online services similar to when we needed them to enter the US earlier this year? I think it was only $20 and they only checked at the airport. Nobody from CBP even checked when I landed at SFO.

Longboater Dec 28, 2022 3:21 pm


Originally Posted by lsquare (Post 34871800)
I meant ORD-HKG.

On the plus side, the protests meant more elbow room in places that were always crowded. I honestly think HK will come back simply because the PRC will not allow the city to become irrelevant. Chinese economic power continues to increase despite the negative news headlines.

Yes, I believe ORD-HKG was double daily 747-400, with one of those flights continuing onto SIN. (I know, lot of seats.)


Originally Posted by wilp888 (Post 34871881)
United is going back to 2x daily SFO-HKG with UA869 resuming on 3/25/23 and HKG-SFO with UA878 resuming on on 3/26/23.

Going back to double daily in just a few weeks after resuming service after three years? I won’t hold my breath on that.

jsloan Dec 28, 2022 3:35 pm


Originally Posted by lsquare (Post 34872074)
Has ADK ever been used as a refueling stop?

I'm not suggesting using ADK as a refueling stop (they'd use ANC). I'm saying they don't need a refueling stop if they route over ADK.

lsquare Dec 28, 2022 3:38 pm


Originally Posted by jsloan (Post 34872206)
I'm not suggesting using ADK as a refueling stop (they'd use ANC). I'm saying they don't need a refueling stop if they route over ADK.

My bad. The way you state it led me to think of using ADK as some sort of refueling stop/layover.


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