May 1, 2021, 4:06 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is "Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
The details:
Award travel updates
Introducing a broader range of award prices
Updates to award travel are on the horizon. For flights on or after November 15, 2019, we’ll no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for each flight.The details:
- Some award prices will be lower than what’s currently published in our chart. You may have already seen these prices, and you’ll be able to get them immediately.
- Other award prices may be higher than what you see today, especially if you’re traveling at a popular time. These prices will take effect immediately for travel November 15 or after.
- Starting November 15, we’re removing close-in fees, so you won’t be charged the extra fee of up to $75 for booking last-minute award travel.
- A flexible award travel calendar is available on united.com or in our app.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is changing?
For travel on or after November 15, we will no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for award flights. Award pricing will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors, including demand. Additionally, starting November 15, we will no longer charge a fee of up to $75 for award flights booked within 21 days of departure.When will these updates take effect?
The award pricing changes apply immediately to flights on or after November 15, 2019. Until then, award prices will be the same as or lower than what’s currently published in our award chart.How many miles will I need for award travel after November 15?
Award prices will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors. Some air awards will be available for less than what’s listed in our chart, which you may have already noticed. After November 15, award prices may also be higher, especially if you’re traveling at popular times. Use our flexible award calendar to get a monthly view of the award prices for a specific destination.Why are you making these changes?
Increasing award prices for the most in-demand flights allows us to offer better returns for our shareholders. If your award travel is flexible, these updates will help you make the most of your miles.How will these updates affect award travel availability?
United MileagePlus members with Premier® status and qualifying United Chase Cardmembers can continue to book award travel without blackout dates. For other members, most award flights that are available today will continue to be available after these updates take effect.Do the lowest-priced awards have any extra flight restrictions?
No. Our lowest priced awards do not have any added restrictions; the fare rules for all award travel apply.How can I find the lowest priced award for my travel?
The award calendar on united.com or in our app will continue to show the lowest available price for your destination.Will I earn miles on my flight if I book an award?
No. As with current award bookings, award travel in the future will not be eligible to earn miles with MileagePlus or any other loyalty program.What if I need to change my existing award?
If you need to change your award ticket, you will be issued a new ticket for which new pricing and additional fees may apply.What if I purchase a close-in award before November 15
The close-in booking fee will still apply to all tickets booked within 21 days of departure prior to November 15, 2019. We will not refund fees paid prior to November 15, even if travel occurs on or after November 15.
"Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
Apr 9, 2019, 4:47 pm
#871
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Caveat: My math assumes a 2-week advance purchase, which should be doable for most leisure trips, and that is where miles are most often used. There are some captive markets where the lone airline will flagrantly exert their monopoly power (e.g., Delta will hose you every time on DTW-CMH and other minor regional routes). Major routes, however, are served by multiple airlines, and you can usually purchase a RT ticket almost anywhere in the country for less than $475. Two weeks from today, NY-LAX is $412, and I have seen it lower. Obviously, pricing can be much higher for last minute bookings, or if your needs mandate a specific itinerary. I own my tiny company, so every dollar spent comes straight out of my pocket; consequently, I am a very frugal business traveler. That does not mean I am "cheap." In fact, I am one of those rare people who often pay actual money for a first class seat, but only if there is value in it. Since I do not have significant status with any carrier, I do appreciate that United is eliminating the close-in booking fee. That has often been the deciding factor between using miles for a spontaneous personal trip, or just paying cash and saving the miles for a more lucrative redemption.
Apr 9, 2019, 6:26 pm
#872
Join Date: May 2016
Location: In btw SJC & SFO
Programs: Marriott Titanium & LTP, Hilton Diamond (Aspire card), Hyatt Globalist, UA Gold (almost free agent)
Posts: 510
Apr 9, 2019, 6:45 pm
#873
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,431
Still, it's easy enough to test your hypothesis. I just did a search on Google Flights for Friday, April 26 after 4 PM, to Sunday April 28 after 1 PM, excluding BE, for flights departing Austin on Star Alliance.
At the low end, DEN is $17, LAX is $336. But then: STL is $489. MEM $538. BNA: $805. IND $953, SBN $733, PIT $539, ATL $499, WAS $508, RDU $512, SYR $971, BVT $885, PWM $905, MIA $909... I'll stop.
Now, I don't know how many of these would be available for 25K saver awards -- probably not many -- but you never know. The point is, a flat $475 two-week advance purchase fare might be nearly ubiquitous in your neck of the woods, but that's certainly not true across the board.
Since I do not have significant status with any carrier, I do appreciate that United is eliminating the close-in booking fee. That has often been the deciding factor between using miles for a spontaneous personal trip, or just paying cash and saving the miles for a more lucrative redemption.
Apr 9, 2019, 8:02 pm
#874
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA 1K 1MMer & LT UC (when flying UA); Hyatt Credit Cardist; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold via UA 1K
Posts: 6,956
Let’s look at the silver lining here: Dynamic pricing = opportunities for mileage “mistake awards”!
Apr 9, 2019, 11:18 pm
#875
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
I've seen short-haul, off-peak offerings from Delta that were on par with a Polaris seat to Asia I could book with United....or at least could book, in the past tense. Add Kirby's hate and thirst for revenge against customers, and I would say a EWR-FLL round trip between Dec-May will likely hover around 70-90,000 miles in coach.
Then you need to get 3 more of those 5000 mile round trips and you are back to the 25K ticket.
But I agree - the evolution of service and hardware cannot be explained away by mere disrespect for passengers.
...whose only real unique selling feature was periodically popping up as the cheapest ticket, or best scheduled option, well it looks like they did it.
Apr 10, 2019, 1:07 am
#876
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 35
This may have been inevitable, but was undoubtedly hastened as a result of all those travel bloggers who publish the best use for miles and ways to optimize the system otherwise. Even just reading through this thread there are several posts that discuss optimization tactics and there will definitely be more posts on favorable availability after the change as people find them in searches. It should be no surprise that the airlines have people whose job description includes trolling the internet to look for touted benefits. Do you really think they aren't going to see what people are finding and act over time to reduce it?
It might be harder for airlines to figure out how to devalue programs if people wouldn't advertise certain aspects that are of such super value to the customer that it makes the business question whether it should continue. I totally get that we want to help each other, but expect that anything and everything you say in public is subject to analysis and action. As unpopular as this is going to be, I might suggest everyone just keep their deals to themselves moving forward, but it seems impossible in this day and age that these boards would all of a sudden go dark as it relates to finding value in any given frequent flyer program.
It might be harder for airlines to figure out how to devalue programs if people wouldn't advertise certain aspects that are of such super value to the customer that it makes the business question whether it should continue. I totally get that we want to help each other, but expect that anything and everything you say in public is subject to analysis and action. As unpopular as this is going to be, I might suggest everyone just keep their deals to themselves moving forward, but it seems impossible in this day and age that these boards would all of a sudden go dark as it relates to finding value in any given frequent flyer program.
Apr 10, 2019, 1:09 am
#877
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,431
As unpopular as this is going to be, I might suggest everyone just keep their deals to themselves moving forward, but it seems impossible in this day and age that these boards would all of a sudden go dark as it relates to finding value in any given frequent flyer program.
Apr 10, 2019, 2:04 am
#878
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
As someone not subject to the close-in fee, I often used mine for last-minute leisure trips. Even if you leave that out, though, if you need to fly tomorrow, $550 is not necessarily going to get you very far.
Probably not to the tune of $475 on that particular route, since it's drivable, but yes, that's one example.
Still, it's easy enough to test your hypothesis. I just did a search on Google Flights for Friday, April 26 after 4 PM, to Sunday April 28 after 1 PM, excluding BE, for flights departing Austin on Star Alliance.
At the low end, DEN is $17, LAX is $336. But then: STL is $489. MEM $538. BNA: $805. IND $953, SBN $733, PIT $539, ATL $499, WAS $508, RDU $512, SYR $971, BVT $885, PWM $905, MIA $909... I'll stop.
Now, I don't know how many of these would be available for 25K saver awards -- probably not many -- but you never know. The point is, a flat $475 two-week advance purchase fare might be nearly ubiquitous in your neck of the woods, but that's certainly not true across the board.
Except, this is where it truly is going to be fools' gold. There's no more booking fee, but the number of miles needed is likely to increase instead.
Probably not to the tune of $475 on that particular route, since it's drivable, but yes, that's one example.
Still, it's easy enough to test your hypothesis. I just did a search on Google Flights for Friday, April 26 after 4 PM, to Sunday April 28 after 1 PM, excluding BE, for flights departing Austin on Star Alliance.
At the low end, DEN is $17, LAX is $336. But then: STL is $489. MEM $538. BNA: $805. IND $953, SBN $733, PIT $539, ATL $499, WAS $508, RDU $512, SYR $971, BVT $885, PWM $905, MIA $909... I'll stop.
Now, I don't know how many of these would be available for 25K saver awards -- probably not many -- but you never know. The point is, a flat $475 two-week advance purchase fare might be nearly ubiquitous in your neck of the woods, but that's certainly not true across the board.
Except, this is where it truly is going to be fools' gold. There's no more booking fee, but the number of miles needed is likely to increase instead.
Apr 10, 2019, 4:56 am
#879
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
Programs: Delta Platinum, American Gold, JetBlue Mosaic 4, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 4,897
As someone not subject to the close-in fee, I often used mine for last-minute leisure trips. Even if you leave that out, though, if you need to fly tomorrow, $550 is not necessarily going to get you very far.
Probably not to the tune of $475 on that particular route, since it's drivable, but yes, that's one example.
Still, it's easy enough to test your hypothesis. I just did a search on Google Flights for Friday, April 26 after 4 PM, to Sunday April 28 after 1 PM, excluding BE, for flights departing Austin on Star Alliance.
At the low end, DEN is $17, LAX is $336. But then: STL is $489. MEM $538. BNA: $805. IND $953, SBN $733, PIT $539, ATL $499, WAS $508, RDU $512, SYR $971, BVT $885, PWM $905, MIA $909... I'll stop.
Now, I don't know how many of these would be available for 25K saver awards -- probably not many -- but you never know. The point is, a flat $475 two-week advance purchase fare might be nearly ubiquitous in your neck of the woods, but that's certainly not true across the board.
Except, this is where it truly is going to be fools' gold. There's no more booking fee, but the number of miles needed is likely to increase instead.
Probably not to the tune of $475 on that particular route, since it's drivable, but yes, that's one example.
Still, it's easy enough to test your hypothesis. I just did a search on Google Flights for Friday, April 26 after 4 PM, to Sunday April 28 after 1 PM, excluding BE, for flights departing Austin on Star Alliance.
At the low end, DEN is $17, LAX is $336. But then: STL is $489. MEM $538. BNA: $805. IND $953, SBN $733, PIT $539, ATL $499, WAS $508, RDU $512, SYR $971, BVT $885, PWM $905, MIA $909... I'll stop.
Now, I don't know how many of these would be available for 25K saver awards -- probably not many -- but you never know. The point is, a flat $475 two-week advance purchase fare might be nearly ubiquitous in your neck of the woods, but that's certainly not true across the board.
Except, this is where it truly is going to be fools' gold. There's no more booking fee, but the number of miles needed is likely to increase instead.
Apr 10, 2019, 6:28 am
#880
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum, Hilton HHonors Diamond
Posts: 1,204
I’m already seeing that on AA PHL-Florida and they technically haven’t went to dynamic awards. It’ll be that way on UA too.
Apr 10, 2019, 6:57 am
#881
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,001
I hate to beat a dead horse, but you are comparing apples and oranges. It is not a question of United miles versus a cash ticket on United, but rather United miles versus a cash ticket...period. Since you are not located in a major hub, most of the destinations you cited probably require a layover (unless WN covers them), so you should be relatively indifferent between UA, AA, DL, or WN. I spot-checked a few of the cities you mentioned, and you could easily fly to any of these cities on the dates you selected for well below $400 if you do not limit yourself to UA, and even UA could beat the ceiling price on several routes. I have not used Google flights, but your reports suggest they are out of touch with actual pricing. I consistently found cheaper flights on Expedia. In any event, I would not buy miles from UA for $475 on the off chance that this might be better than the cash price on a give day.
Here's an example of where UA awards have great value today:
The cheapest flight tomorrow, MCO-CPR (where I have to fly a lot), is $609- on Delta, but with 9+ hours transit time. UA's flight is $645- with only a 6 hour transit time. 3 hours of my time is worth a lot more than $36-. Yet that flight is available right now, as I right this, for 12.5K miles on UA--an amazing bargain. Indeed, I see that 12.5K awards are available every day for the next two weeks to CPR.
I have to do lots of last-minute travel in my role as a troubleshooter, and I have saved tens of thousands of dollars by using last-minute saver awards to get to remote airports over the last ten years. These last-minute, 12.5K saver awards were the big sweet spot in the MP program.
Last edited by zombietooth; Apr 11, 2019 at 8:06 am
Apr 10, 2019, 6:59 am
#882
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 7,971
This may have been inevitable, but was undoubtedly hastened as a result of all those travel bloggers who publish the best use for miles and ways to optimize the system otherwise. Even just reading through this thread there are several posts that discuss optimization tactics and there will definitely be more posts on favorable availability after the change as people find them in searches. It should be no surprise that the airlines have people whose job description includes trolling the internet to look for touted benefits. Do you really think they aren't going to see what people are finding and act over time to reduce it?
Fast forward to today, where there's a great amount of talk about partner award redemptions, especially in premium cabin. Those cost UA far more, since they have to pay cash to the partner (not at the revenue fare rate, but it's still a cash cost). Also, there's enough mileage earning going on through credit cards that Everyday awards might be used more often than they used to, and each of those has the potential of taking a seat that otherwise would have been sold at full fare. I think we've already seen the results of that happening, as Everyday awards on many routes are now far more than their historical 2x Saver cost.
I think you're missing the point, or at least half of it. Even if UA didn't read FT or the bloggers, they'd still see the results of those in their internal data audits.
Apr 10, 2019, 8:07 am
#883
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 710
This is really the whole point. When planes are essentially full, United looks at each seat as a revenue source. It doesn't really matter what currency is being used - dollars or miles. There's no discounting anymore based on currency type.
Last edited by glbltvlr; Apr 10, 2019 at 8:33 am
Apr 10, 2019, 8:53 am
#884
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BUR / LAX
Programs: UA MM/Gold; WN A-list; HH something depending; Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,555
As I sit at the airport waiting due to a flight cancellation, it crossed my mind that with the switch to spend-based points earnings and the focus on 1K+GS, this could make sense to UA. File this under Captain Obvious, I guess.
Under the new system, the normal flyer or credit card holder (not FT reader) will have much less ability to redeem for affordable flights (even if they think they will, and even if they don't, they don't know the system's been changed on them) since they just don't earn that many miles to begin with, and the high spend/earn flyers are earning so many darned points that they just won't care about spending 45k vs 25k for a domestic flight (my anecdotal example is a GS relative who spends ungodly amounts of cash on last minute and international business tickets, but has zero knowledge about how the game works or FT).
UA wins at the bottom by selling Chase cards and the dream of free flights, with maybe every now and then someone scoring a discounted mileage ticket where a seat otherwise would have gone out empty (zero cost). UA wins at the top by showering miles on high spenders who don't really notice the difference between 25k and 45k to get their kid home for the weekend.
Then there is the whole universe of FT readers which is like 1/10th of 1% of the UA universe.
Under the new system, the normal flyer or credit card holder (not FT reader) will have much less ability to redeem for affordable flights (even if they think they will, and even if they don't, they don't know the system's been changed on them) since they just don't earn that many miles to begin with, and the high spend/earn flyers are earning so many darned points that they just won't care about spending 45k vs 25k for a domestic flight (my anecdotal example is a GS relative who spends ungodly amounts of cash on last minute and international business tickets, but has zero knowledge about how the game works or FT).
UA wins at the bottom by selling Chase cards and the dream of free flights, with maybe every now and then someone scoring a discounted mileage ticket where a seat otherwise would have gone out empty (zero cost). UA wins at the top by showering miles on high spenders who don't really notice the difference between 25k and 45k to get their kid home for the weekend.
Then there is the whole universe of FT readers which is like 1/10th of 1% of the UA universe.
Apr 10, 2019, 8:56 am
#885
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 29
it seems that the general consensus is that United is giving us the Big Metal Bird with these "Deltas" to the program. Saver Awards, in my experience, are already a thing of the past unless you liked three stopovers and a 38 hour flight. As for Business Savers, they were predominantly mixed cabin most of the time with your only hope being a schedule change. Maybe, there could be some benefit for those with flexibility and the ability to book far in advance. I do not hold much optimism for those needing to book close in as I prefer knowing what it takes worst case with the current set up using a Standard Award. Perhaps, as others have suggested, it is time to burn off some miles or weight more spending to Sapphire Reserve since the offerings there should now be more competitive.