May 1, 2021, 4:06 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is "Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
The details:
Award travel updates
Introducing a broader range of award prices
Updates to award travel are on the horizon. For flights on or after November 15, 2019, we’ll no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for each flight.The details:
- Some award prices will be lower than what’s currently published in our chart. You may have already seen these prices, and you’ll be able to get them immediately.
- Other award prices may be higher than what you see today, especially if you’re traveling at a popular time. These prices will take effect immediately for travel November 15 or after.
- Starting November 15, we’re removing close-in fees, so you won’t be charged the extra fee of up to $75 for booking last-minute award travel.
- A flexible award travel calendar is available on united.com or in our app.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is changing?
For travel on or after November 15, we will no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for award flights. Award pricing will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors, including demand. Additionally, starting November 15, we will no longer charge a fee of up to $75 for award flights booked within 21 days of departure.When will these updates take effect?
The award pricing changes apply immediately to flights on or after November 15, 2019. Until then, award prices will be the same as or lower than what’s currently published in our award chart.How many miles will I need for award travel after November 15?
Award prices will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors. Some air awards will be available for less than what’s listed in our chart, which you may have already noticed. After November 15, award prices may also be higher, especially if you’re traveling at popular times. Use our flexible award calendar to get a monthly view of the award prices for a specific destination.Why are you making these changes?
Increasing award prices for the most in-demand flights allows us to offer better returns for our shareholders. If your award travel is flexible, these updates will help you make the most of your miles.How will these updates affect award travel availability?
United MileagePlus members with Premier® status and qualifying United Chase Cardmembers can continue to book award travel without blackout dates. For other members, most award flights that are available today will continue to be available after these updates take effect.Do the lowest-priced awards have any extra flight restrictions?
No. Our lowest priced awards do not have any added restrictions; the fare rules for all award travel apply.How can I find the lowest priced award for my travel?
The award calendar on united.com or in our app will continue to show the lowest available price for your destination.Will I earn miles on my flight if I book an award?
No. As with current award bookings, award travel in the future will not be eligible to earn miles with MileagePlus or any other loyalty program.What if I need to change my existing award?
If you need to change your award ticket, you will be issued a new ticket for which new pricing and additional fees may apply.What if I purchase a close-in award before November 15
The close-in booking fee will still apply to all tickets booked within 21 days of departure prior to November 15, 2019. We will not refund fees paid prior to November 15, even if travel occurs on or after November 15.
"Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
Aug 2, 2015, 10:33 pm
#361
Join Date: Nov 2013
Programs: UA 1k 1mil. Marriott Titanium
Posts: 202
Revenue based miles together with higher miles redemptions makes loyalty more difficult. If there can be price collusion then can there be miles collusion? Because fare price and dynamaic miles needed are intertwined even though FF is completly voluntary. I would imagine dynamic awards has been discussed already by many other FF programs before now.
Aug 3, 2015, 4:34 am
#362
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: EAU
Programs: UA 1K, CO Plat, NW Plat, Marriott Premiere Plat, SPG Plat, Priority Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,712
UA should be careful about killing the golden goose... if they make their miles worth a penny, there are plenty of credit cards that give greater value than that in cash. And we all know how much airlines love to sell their miles.....
Although I suppose perhaps with the increase in airfares and increased profitability from actually flying paid customers, maybe the calculus has changed and selling miles isn't as important.
Although I suppose perhaps with the increase in airfares and increased profitability from actually flying paid customers, maybe the calculus has changed and selling miles isn't as important.
Aug 3, 2015, 5:50 am
#364
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 981
UA should be careful about killing the golden goose... if they make their miles worth a penny, there are plenty of credit cards that give greater value than that in cash. And we all know how much airlines love to sell their miles.....
Although I suppose perhaps with the increase in airfares and increased profitability from actually flying paid customers, maybe the calculus has changed and selling miles isn't as important.
Although I suppose perhaps with the increase in airfares and increased profitability from actually flying paid customers, maybe the calculus has changed and selling miles isn't as important.
Aug 3, 2015, 7:17 am
#365
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SPI
Programs: AA Gold, UA LT Plat, Mar LTT
Posts: 18,147
The 3 cent value is measured against the (offered) cash cost of a given flight.
Since the airline: 1) has total/complete control of seat availability, AND 2) any seat released for redemption wasnt going to be sold anyway (in the airline's judgement)- they are merely giving away for miles what would have been "spoilage inventory" immediately post takeoff.
So, the 1 cent you mention is profit, pure and simple.
Dave
Aug 3, 2015, 8:35 am
#367
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SPI
Programs: AA Gold, UA LT Plat, Mar LTT
Posts: 18,147
I think you're wrong.
Dave
Aug 3, 2015, 9:16 am
#368
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
In VERY overly simplistic terms...
It varies by airline, but the general assumption is adult = 170 lbs, luggage = 30 lbs. So 200 lbs per passenger.
Average cost to fly plane empty from A-B = x (Weight = wx)
Average cost to fly plane full from A-B = y (Weight = wy)
y-x = cost variance cv
wy-wx = weight variance wv
cv / wv = cost per pound.
200 * cpp = variable cost per passenger.
Repeat a similar caclulation for whatever you want to know. (e.g. fuel per additional passenger, labor (if you add labor), catering (beyond meals), misc (toiletries, amenity kits, paper)
Airlines can and do, do this for passengers, cargo, fuel, staffing, etc. They know down to the penny what it costs to let you get on the plane from point a to point b. Pilots also calculate weight and balance for every flight. (Actually, the computer at ops does it for them, but it is done for every flight.)
Aug 3, 2015, 5:59 pm
#370
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
Actually they don't even need to get the value down to a penny to lose. Most cash or points cards bonus at least some spending. Also, for at least some such cards (CSP e.g.) if you book through their portal you get better than 1c per point pricing. Finally, if you are using card points (or cash back) to buy a ticket you get to choose any flight not just the few that UA wants to make available. I have already switched most of my "award" travel to just booking what I want with CSP points and then the miles just accumulate until there is actually something useful to do with them on my terms. So from my perspective chasing miles has ceased to be of any real interest, at least on UA. (And in any case, I haven't flown UA since last fall and don't have plans to for the rest of this year and that's even as a lifetime 1K with a pretty large remaining balance of UA miles. It just isn't worth putting up with their service and attitude so I've been spending real money or points elsewhere and buying premium tickets for anything over an hour or two.)
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Aug 3, 2015 at 6:53 pm Reason: Using symbols, spaces or other methods to mask vulgarities is not allowed.
Aug 3, 2015, 7:09 pm
#371
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 981
NO. NOT. EVEN. A LITTLE BIT. AT ALL.
The 3 cent value is measured against the (offered) cash cost of a given flight.
Since the airline: 1) has total/complete control of seat availability, AND 2) any seat released for redemption wasnt going to be sold anyway (in the airline's judgement)- they are merely giving away for miles what would have been "spoilage inventory" immediately post takeoff.
So, the 1 cent you mention is profit, pure and simple.
Dave
The 3 cent value is measured against the (offered) cash cost of a given flight.
Since the airline: 1) has total/complete control of seat availability, AND 2) any seat released for redemption wasnt going to be sold anyway (in the airline's judgement)- they are merely giving away for miles what would have been "spoilage inventory" immediately post takeoff.
So, the 1 cent you mention is profit, pure and simple.
Dave
take for instance the family that gets a bunch of credit cards and 100k miles and then flies a family of 4 coast to coast round trip. in your argument, you're saying that's pure profit to UA because those seats would have otherwise gone unsold.
i'd argue that's wrong. perhaps if they didn't have those credit cards, the fmaily wouldn't travel, but most or at least some portion of folks would buy an airline ticket and still take their trip. maybe not on united, but some percentage would. you absolutely must account for that. there is absolutely revenue lost when someone redeems miles. it may not be 100% of the face value of a ticket, but if i was an airline ceo, and you brought that analysis into me, i'd throw you out of the room and say think bigger picture. i'd tell you to go run a monte carlo simulation, and calculate the probabilities of folks w credit card miles not traveling at all, traveling on other airlines, what the likely fare paid would be etc.
Aug 4, 2015, 2:03 am
#372
Join Date: May 2001
Location: TPA 50%/BKK 30%/HKG 20%
Programs: UA 1K MM - AF G – TK G – AZ Ex – Hilton D – Marriott G – IHG P
Posts: 1,990
It is inevitable..a natural extension of all the previous decisions, even ignoring the corporate sheepleness of United following DL's devaluation of their FF program. As a previous poster noted, when you consider how rickety their IT structure is, it will be interesting how successfully implement the program.
Last edited by TomA; Aug 4, 2015 at 2:09 am
Aug 4, 2015, 7:20 am
#373
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,693
Well past the time to start redeeming miles. You should be done by now.
(from other post)
Miles have always been worth a penny, btw.
Incremental cost of an award seat is about 10 USD domestic, maybe 30-50 long haul. Miles redemptions are very profitable on a per seat basis.
(from other post)
Miles have always been worth a penny, btw.
Incremental cost of an award seat is about 10 USD domestic, maybe 30-50 long haul. Miles redemptions are very profitable on a per seat basis.
Aug 4, 2015, 12:43 pm
#374
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,001
Well past the time to start redeeming miles. You should be done by now.
(from other post)
Miles have always been worth a penny, btw.
Incremental cost of an award seat is about 10 USD domestic, maybe 30-50 long haul. Miles redemptions are very profitable on a per seat basis.
(from other post)
Miles have always been worth a penny, btw.
Incremental cost of an award seat is about 10 USD domestic, maybe 30-50 long haul. Miles redemptions are very profitable on a per seat basis.
No fees for last-minute changes/cancellations for Plat. and above makes a huge difference because I often book 3 or 4 layered F and J reservations internationally, and cancel them as better options become available close-in, when F awards really open up. So, I am fully aware that the those below Plat. cannot get as good a yield for redemptions.
Aug 4, 2015, 2:34 pm
#375
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
RNE, saying, "Open the pod bay doors, JEFF."