ElmhurstNick

I think the route maps from IAH will look very different than the route maps from ORD, because at ORD they are fighting two different airlines and both airports have good transit service to downtown.

I expect that ORD will be how DL treats MDW: they flew ATL 5x717 weekdays pre-COVID with MDW predominantly a destination, and excess seats were used to fly Chicagoans and NW Indianans to Florida and the Caribbean. (They also fly MSP and DTW which are legacy NW flights now on CR9/CR7.). I'd expect WN to pick a few cities where they want to improve their corporate contracts, and add ORD from them, and then try to pick off some Chicagoans who don't fly enough business travel for consistent E+/MCE seating or mileage accrual and get some 10-12 day advance fares out of them.

In Houston, I'd guess more flights to WN strongholds, stuff like BNA, BWI, STL, OAK, and of course DAL. But I am not very familiar with that market.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

By "both airports", I guess you're referring to ORD and MDW, not ORD and IAH. IAH (once LAX finishes its rail connection) will the be the largest city in U.S. w/o rail from main airport.

ElmhurstNick

Yes, both ORD and MDW. When I had a project that took me near downtown Houston a couple of times and the Galleria a couple of times, I ended up resorting to Lyft or renting a car.

bocastephen

For most Joe Shmo's off the street, none of this matters....nor does first class or better IRROPS options, none of which applies to non elite MP members anyway.

dsftm

Don't be too quick to conclude here, people love WN. I'm not exactly sure why, but underestimating SouthWest loyalty is a bad bet.

HNLbasedFlyer

I agree with you. But I don't think this causes an exodus of regular UA fliers to WN.

JimInOhio

I agree as well. What I don't know is what percentage of UA flyers view themselves as regular UA flyers.

Back to ORD, I have to think WN will be initiating flights to places like MCO, FLL, and TPA. Those are destinations UA is counting on for good traffic over the next several months.

Collierkr

this is being reported on multiple channels and local Houston paper so it is real. Maybe wishful thinking on your part otherwise?

this is a BiG deal and will drive UA prices down, especially IAH to ORD. Even beyond that if WN plays it right.

ncorman

Media Release from Southwest


Oct 12, 2020Southwest Airlines Co. (NYSE: LUV) today announced plans to expand its footprint in Chicago and Houston to give more travelers access to Southwest's iconic Hospitality, low fares, and Customer-friendly policies.

Chicago O'Hare International Airport
Work is underway to add new service from Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD), alongside existing service from the carrier's longtime Chicago home, Midway International Airport (MDW). Midway remains one of the busiest airports in Southwest's network. Since first arriving in Chicago in 1985, Southwest has grown into one of the city's largest employers with more than 4,800 Chicago-based Employees.

George Bush Intercontinental Airport
As Southwest approaches a commemoration of 50 years of flying, the carrier intends to return to Houston George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH), complementing its substantial operation at Houston Hobby (HOU). Intercontinental served as one of three airports where Southwest operated on its first day in operation, June 18, 1971. The carrier moved to Hobby Airport shortly thereafter though it operated service from both airports between 1980 and 2005. Southwest remains a key employer in the City of Houston, providing nearly 4,000 jobs.

"Southwest owes decades of success to our Employees and Customers who have supported our business in Chicago and Houston," said Gary Kelly, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman, Southwest Airlines. "Today's announcement furthers our commitment to both cities as we add service to share Southwest's value and Hospitality with more leisure and business travelers."

Service to both airports is anticipated to begin in the first half of 2021. Additional details, including schedules and fares, will be available soon.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/re...nental-airport

arisaa

You took the words out of my mouth

jsloan

UA doesn't have any particular pricing power on IAH-ORD. 7-day advance purchase fares are $59 (one way) right now.

If the intent of the announcement is really that they're launching IAH-ORD -- and, to reiterate, I don't think that's what they're saying, and I suspect they're much more likely to fly HOU-ORD or MDW-IAH than ORD-IAH -- then I think they're crazy. Now, something like SFO-IAH or DCA-IAH/DCA-ORD (which would require using a very valuable DCA slot)? That might get some attention. ORD-IAH itself, no.

Now wait a second. What on earth is UA supposed to do?

If they cater to the lowest-common-denominator traveler, then I see talk about how Kirby is taking a play out of Baldanza's book and is trying to "punish customers." But now E+, F, better IRROPS etc., are not applicable to the non-elite traveler and are therefore pointless?

I feel like there's an expectation that UA should provide Emirates-level service without charging a dollar more than Spirit, all the while making sure to bend over backwards for their most-frequent customers, but without alienating the occasional traveler, especially if said occasional traveler is rich. Oh, and employees are to never to receive any perks but are expected to be obsequious to the customer at all times.

PS: Plenty of "non elite MP" members fly in F. They simply pay for it. And while you're probably right about the IRROPS protection not being as valuable for the average traveler, that's partially because they don't know to ask, and UA doesn't usually go out of their way to offer offline re-accommodation. An informed, non-premier traveler likely does better during IRROPS than an uninformed, premier traveler.

onthesam

Average height UA 1K here who doesn't see what's wrong with WN. 31-32" pitch is adequate. In fact, I love WN. Much friendlier staff on WN. When traveling with companions (precovid) I sit in opposite aisles for more space (or the exit row 'Luv seats'). On time performance seems better than UA and MDW (albeit with precheck) is a perfectly fine experience. Rarely if ever stuck waiting for an occupied gate to open up. Pilots do like 40 mph to/from the runway. Until very recently, much more flexible policy on use of cash. And don't even get me started about the superior service, routes and frequency now that we're in covid mode (incl blocked seats).

As mentioned, companion pass is a huge perk but don't underestimate ordinary A-list. It largely eliminates boarding position roulette.

For me, route and timing permitting, the decision is confirmed UA F/J vs WN Y. UA E product doesn't hold up.

cesco.g

Last but not least I would add UA lounge access for UA customers with UC membership to the list of items in UAs favor.

uastarflyer

which isn’t what I said.

but no doubt having them directly compete is better for consumers than having just one airline monopolize the route.

jsloan

It's not that I doubt that competition is good for the consumer. It's that I doubt that it is meaningfully different for WN to fly, say, IAH-BNA vs. HOU-BNA. I suspect that UA sees that as essentially the same competition either way.

If you want to say, "WN expanding its presence in Chicago and Houston is good for UA customers" then I might be inclined to agree. But we don't even know that that's happening -- it could be that WN is going to move some flights from HOU to IAH and MDW to ORD, and then I don't think it would have an impact at all. And, heck, it could easily be bad for UA customers, assuming they want to fly UA, if the increased competition causes UA to start pruning routes.