trk1

who really cares

garykung

That's the problem - who will be the plaintiffs?

When a buyer decides to buy from white sellers only, I agree it is a questionable act. Why it does not raise to the level of discrimination? No, because there is no victim. The same goes with Asian neighborhood scenario.

Also - under the FHA, both of them are not prohibited practices.

WineCountryUA

Let's get back to the thread issue. Practices in real estate are discussion for another forum.

Additionally the complaint makes no mention about any problems arising while working the charter flights, the plaintiffs seems to want to work the flights.

The issue appears to be, UA allows the chartering organization to specially request, by name, individuals to work the flight and UA does not use the standard assignment biding system, in those cases, for crews working charters. The plaintiffs want that changed and UA has been non-responsive.

Let's not wander from the issues raised in the complaint in this thread.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator

garykung

Then the FAs should sue the charter organizations as well...

HNLbasedFlyer

From Matthew's blog

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-ai...arter-lawsuit/

Live and Let’s Fly has further learned that:

• The average age of flight attendants on sports team charters is 46 years old
• The average tenure of these flight attendants is 19+ years
• United has a higher percentage of Black flight attendants in its sports team charter program than in its overall flight attendant population

garykung

This is what I called patently stupid.

If UA can't get the case dismissed, UA will have to disclose information. If what has been mentioned in the blog is not produced, then Matthew himself can be subject to subpoena personally.

Why would someone do that - getting on the trouble wagon instead of getting off?

fezzington

Frankly, this is a ridiculous complaint.

(edit: snip. don't want to get myself in trouble.)

9.C. is not normally used for charter flights. More like inaugural flights, last flights, Oshkosh, etc.

I don't have those numbers handy, but I would not be surprised if it were true. Thousands of FAs were hired under the pmCAL contract between 2015-2018, skewing the number far more junior.

The Plaintiffs ought to try and bargain for this, as the program is in compliance with the CBA and cannot be changed unilaterally.

narvik

Also from: https://liveandletsfly.com/united-ai...arter-lawsuit/

"Importantly, flight attendant eligibility to work a charter flight is based solely on performance and attendance and has nothing to do with age, race or gender.”

(bolding mine)

Where do all the really good UA FAs go? On charter flights!
Maybe the two complainants in this case were/are simply under-performers?

cmd320

Sounds like a few FAs were just sour because they wanted to work charters without actually meeting the performance standards.

Most US FAs aren’t really used to having their work measured by performance.

jhayes_1780

I'm still trying to figure out how the plaintiffs have been "damaged"? They claim they've missed out on certain perks of the charter program:
Is higher wages really a thing for charter flights? I thought pay was based mostly on time once door closed, and the contract makes that even throughout all FA's? And it feels like even the longest sports charter flight is shorter then the "shortest" wide body intl flight. (except maybe when the NFL did the LHR games).
Can you assign damages for a premium hotel vs. a "regular" UA approved hotel?
I've had "comp" tickets from players and executives... in every instance they have a $0.00 value and cannot be resold via the secondary market.
I've had field passes, you cannot buy or sell these either.
Merchandise? Are they really damaged because they didn't get a 2016 SF Giants wild card game t-shirt
I guess the "and more" will be subjective. But since its mentioned last, I'll speculate it is indeed least.

The other thing I have been absorbing in my head is that while surely there are longer transcon charters, the bulk of these charters must be less then 4 hours. I would think they would be a tremendous amount of work to feed and water all the players/staff/etc. So it seems like it would be a pretty demanding assignment. I do also see continuity pretty important to the teams: "this FA knows that Evan Longoria likes a tapas box and fruit juice after a double header"

Finally I am not being dismissive of her faith. But the second FA complains she didn't get her Kosher meal at the Backstage FA event. With how hit or miss UA is with special meals.... they might be dead to right on that one

MSPeconomist

I wonder whether the two plaintiffs have any performance issues in their employment records, such as discipline or attendance problems. This could explain why they were unable to bid on the few charter flights that were open for bidding by FAs, and might even be the source of the list mentioned by the the UA manager.

I noticed one of the comments claims that the first plaintiff has a PhD in psych and a *second career* as an academic. I'm trying to figure out how that would fit with an FA's schedule. Also, in most colleges and universities, full time faculty would certainly be prohibited from having second jobs. I'm wondering whether the hours spent working elsewhere in addition to FA duties would violate FA rest requirements and be a safety issue. I wouldn't want my pilots and FAs top be burning the candle at both ends by working for another employer for forty hours per week.

JimInOhio

A "second career as an academic" can mean a lot of things other than working for another employer for 40 hours per week.

clubord

Not to derail the thread. There are plenty of pilots that have other careers besides flying for United. Huge segment of the roster still flying for the Air Force Guard or Reserves. Also, there are multiple JAGs and individuals actively practicing law on their days off from flying.

I occasionally bid LHR trips (pre-Covid) and meet with my Lloyd’s clients on the layovers. Very efficient use of my time and has no effect on either employer.

Don’t have the Ops Manual in front of me but if memory serves me only commercial flying (paid for services flying) counts towards FAA rest requirements and/or flight hour limitations. All commercial flying must be pre-approved by the company prior to conducting the flights

xooz

If this link is the plaintiff, It looks like she has a full career. It says she won the "Humanitarian of the Year Award (Inflight Formal United Airlines) 2012".

sethb

I would say that depends on numbers. If the aircraft requires, say, 5 flight attendants (by FAA regulations) and has 12, then the other 7 might be considered entertainers.

Eligibility is a different thing from actually getting the position.

A post above says that charter flights can require/get earlier paid attendance.
There's more value to a better hotel. The price difference is one measure of the additional value.
The fact that comp tickets and field passes can't be sold doesn't mean that they are worthless. People find them very desirable. I've gotten free admission to concerts because of friends, which I'd value at least at the cost of a ticket, sometimes higher.
Merchandise is easily valued, at least if it's typical for-sale merchandise.