FTLexMUC

I guess that’s why people skip legs...

with that being said, I was looking into flights to Europe this summer and find a connection to Frankfurt vie Brussels in business prices out at $2400 but the direct flight to BRU without the FRA leg is $4k. Both airports work for me.

other than skipping legs, are there legit ways to force the cheaper fare on the direct?

hirohito888

Maybe try different dates?

Don't really understand the question, (assuming NYC is your origin) you're saying NYC-BRU-FRA is $2,400 but NYC-BRU is $4,000, are you trying to get to BRU or FRA non-stop?

In either case, I'm seeing fares for $2,500-2,600 for both FRA and BRU non-stop and 1-stop.



Or is this a one-way fare, and you're asking to skip the last leg...

xliioper

Based on pricing, looks like you are looking at roundtrip fares (which are much cheaper than one-way's to Europe) and hidden-city doesn't really work with roundtrip fares (they will cancel your remaining legs if you skip the BRU-FRA segment). Hidden city is more effective on US domestic flights where roundtrip fares are frequently just priced as two one-way's and you can buy a one-way ticket in each direction without risking having your return flights cancelled if you skip a segment on the outbound.

UA has biz fares for EWR-BRU from $2500 roundtrip in June and July with a 7-day minimum stay, but these fares require Tue/Wed departures. Departing on a Fri-Sun will require booking different fares which go for around $3500-$4000 roundtrip. In late July/early August, there are fares in the $2250/$2350 range and they go as low as $2100/$2200 roundtrip (depending on departure days) in mid to late August. Bascially, if you have some schedule flexibility you can do much better than $4000 roundtrip. Google Flights makes it fairly easy to find these using their calendar view. It helps if you have a general understanding of the fare requirements of the cheaper biz fares. These generally include a lengthy advance purchase requirement (often 60-days for cheap TATL biz fares), a minimum stay requirement (generally 7 days or at least a Saturday night), and day of week travel requirements (the cheaper fares generally are only good for mid-week travel). All these restrictions are disclosed in the Fare Rules which you can find in the "View fare rules and restrictions" link for an itin on united.com. Here's a snapshot from Google Flights for roundtrip business fares non-stop on United on EWR-BRU. You can see the drop-off in fares starting in late July down to $2100 roundtrip for mid-August trips.

applegrcoug

There really are some weird ones out there...

Here is mine from today:

multi-city to Europe in Business (prices are rounded)

PDX-YVR-LHR
INN-FRA-SEA
$4000

PDX-YVR-LHR
MUC-FRA-SEA
$3000

PDX-YVR-LHR
INN-FRA-SEA-YVR
$3000

PDX-YVR-LHR
MUC-FRA-SEA-YVR
$4000

It seems to be some quirk with LH getting it to price as P instead of Z, but what those triggers are.....beats me.

It just makes no sense to me....

paperwastage

not sure why you think it's strange
flights are not cost-plus model (raw cost of flight plus 10% markup)

It's supply and demand.

Low supply, high demand for nonstop flight = can charger higher
so XYZ-BRU price is high

Lower demand and higher supply for one stop flight = charge lower
(Need to compete with BA offering XYZ-LHR-FRA versus XYZ-BRU-FRA. People prefer nonstop over one stop, so lower demand)
airline has leftover seats on XYZ-BRU but dont want to lower price for XYZ-BRU - rather sell XYZ-BRU-ABC at lower price to fill up XYZ-BRU

jsloan

That's precisely what it is. LH has some Byzantine married-segment logic that I've never quite been able to figure out. If the P fare isn't actually available, you may get an error when it revalidates the inventory prior to purchase.

gene2632

If you want crazy consider this. We are going to DUB in May from LAS. Bought the tickets a while ago at about $1600 eac RT in Perm Plus. Killing time to day I check the price;;;$3400 PP.. and EWR to DUB is $4200. Dame flights, dame dates, costs more if you just fly from EWR to DUB...that makes no sense.

jsloan

There's more one-stop competition on LAS-DUB than there is nonstop competition on EWR-DUB. What you're seeing is entirely normal. Airfare has nothing at all to do with the cost of providing transportation.

tods27

This. For years, DEN-FRA has been a high price market for UA/LH (especially without a Saturday night stay). But when I've had to go other places in Europe, the price is almost half. It always includes the same DEN-FRA flight, but it's way cheaper. There was a time back in the early 2000s where I was flying DEN-FRA-BUD for $1000 r/t in coach, B fare and fully refundable with no weekend stay. The same timing DEN-FRA would be $1700 non-refundable and maybe a W fare if you're lucky.

applegrcoug

So for funsies...
destination is SEA

these generate a P

MUC
TXL
VIE
HAM
SZG
LNZ
BRU
Stuttgart train station to FRA

These throw Z
INN
VCE
ZRH
CDG
FCO
GVA
BUD
FLR
CPH
OSL
PRG
STR
FRA
BLQ


I

jsloan

So, this is all normal: the same FRA-SEA flight is going to have different inventory depending upon what it's paired with, because that P bucket needs to be available on all legs.

The weird part to me is the way that LH inventory seems to depend upon connecting partner flights. Fares, I could understand, but changing inventory is weird.

applegrcoug

It just generally seems weird...

Vie, it is both LH and OS, so it gets P.
Muc is LH, so it gets P.
Szg is LH, so it gets P.
Zrh is LH and LX, so it gets Z.
Gva is LX, so it gets Z.
Inn is OS, so a Z.
Vce is LH, gets Z

So from this...

LX=Z
Italy=Z
Fra=Z
LH if not in Italy or Fra, then P
OS, if not also serviced by LH, Z

Weird...

maybe I will do YVR and see if it is the opposite. It just seems weird. How would you like to be IT and have to write those pricing algorithms into the system?

jsloan

Well, that's not really how it works. What you're actually seeing is the effect of the way airfare is priced. In order to find a price for a given itinerary, you need to consider the cities and the flights. First you find a fare that's applicable to the cities you're interested in -- INN-SEA, for example. Then, you look for the class of service the custom has requested -- business class, in this case. You start with the cheapest fares and you work through them, looking for one that's applicable. Some fares are only good on the weekends, some fares are only good if you route through certain cities, etc.

Entirely separate from this, you're also grabbing the inventory for the flights that you're interested in: INN-FRA-SEA, for example. "Married segment" logic means that the inventory for INN-FRA-SEA is entirely independent of INN-FRA and FRA-SEA; there can be more discount seats, or there can be fewer. The final requirement for a fare to be applicable is that there has to be inventory available in the right fare buckets on the flights in question.

The rules that you're describing for P and Z fares could be driven by different fares being published or by different inventory. That's pretty standard and it's what I meant when I said (to another poster) that airfare has nothing to do with the costs of operating the flights. Instead, it's based on this giant collection of fares and the inventory for each flight that the airline has available.

gene2632

I realize it is all supply and demand or basicaly "lets see how much we can get for this". Just another reason for me to be glad EWR is no longer home for me.

TomMM

How much do the Lord flights cost?