Disappointing Experience with PP Misconnect
Nov 3, 2019, 1:25 am
#91
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland CA
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Leaving aside EWR-HNL, the longest UA domestic flight is a smidge over six hours. Would anyone seriously bite off their nose to spite their face by waiting 'days' for a PP seat to get to where the want to go? I've taken a PP flight, it's ok but certainly not airplane nirvana for which I'd overnight in an airport hotel at EWR/LAX/SFO.
Nov 3, 2019, 4:29 am
#92
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A mistake by an EWR agent does not constitute "policy." OP should have been given E+.
Nov 3, 2019, 4:41 am
#93
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So there's definitively no policy that says E- should be the highest entitlement in a misconnect.
Nov 3, 2019, 6:39 am
#94
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,116
So, you'd be OK with a FA asking a paying Polaris passenger to switch seats if the GS passenger has a broken seat? Isn't the OP here asking for the same consideration? After all, he presumably paid more than other passengers sitting in the E+ seat he wanted.
Aren't you suggesting that logically, UA ought to rank order everyone on a given flight by fare paid, and allocate seats in that fashion?
Look, the OP got screwed due to a misconnect - it happens. Since he presumably paid more than some sitting in E+, while I'm not suggesting that someone be yanked out of an E+ seat, UA should have offered him a reasonable accommodation. E- isn't reasonable.
Aren't you suggesting that logically, UA ought to rank order everyone on a given flight by fare paid, and allocate seats in that fashion?
Look, the OP got screwed due to a misconnect - it happens. Since he presumably paid more than some sitting in E+, while I'm not suggesting that someone be yanked out of an E+ seat, UA should have offered him a reasonable accommodation. E- isn't reasonable.
Nov 3, 2019, 7:08 am
#95
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Nov 3, 2019, 8:08 am
#96
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This is getting further and further off-topic, so I’ll try to keep my replies brief.
I’m not aware of any, but there might be. 2nd freedom flights are increasingly rare because of airplanes’ increased range. If there are, the passengers will have to stay on board, and the TSA would undoubtedly insist upon clearing everybody anyway.
For cabotage purposes, it is a domestic flight.
If there was any negotiation involved, I suspect that it had more to do with the US/Japan Open Skies treaty than anything else.
By a strict reading of the law, yes. This is why most Alaska cruises depart Vancouver, not Seattle: the cruise ships used are foreign-flagged, so they cannot deliver passengers from one US point to another. Asiana got fined for marketing and selling similar packages: “shopping trips” for Guam residents at ICN on their way from GUM to the mainland.
Perhaps because they’re trying to follow the law?
Back on topic,
That’s precisely what EWR-LHR-SFO was, if you didn’t care to be downgraded. 
You are mistaken. There is no DOT policy on downgrades.
I’m not aware of any, but there might be. 2nd freedom flights are increasingly rare because of airplanes’ increased range. If there are, the passengers will have to stay on board, and the TSA would undoubtedly insist upon clearing everybody anyway.
Domestic in the absolute weakest sense of the word. PPT is not part of the Schengen area, I cannot board a flight from PPT to ORY transit through ORY and then fly on to FRA. I would still need to enter Europe in ORY. It's also unclear how much autonomy they have and what rules apply there given how geographically dispersed they are. Would EuroControl even have authority over PPT?
The argument I'm making is that in the case of a destination like say GUM or HNL, there are tons of foreign airlines trying to fly into those destinations. Yet the reciprocal demand from travellers in that region to said foreign countries is limited. Hence the foreign countries need the slots more than the other way round and so the US has a bargaining chip when negotiating with said countries on 5th freedom routes and the like (at least in theory).
If there was any negotiation involved, I suspect that it had more to do with the US/Japan Open Skies treaty than anything else.
Unless and until the governments can read minds and understand their intent fully the whole idea of cabotage is based on the honour system.
For your SEA-YYZ-BOS example, suppose I am based out of SEA but have business meeting in YYZ and then the same day need to travel to BOS to attend a conference am I breaking cabotage laws then?
For your SEA-YYZ-BOS example, suppose I am based out of SEA but have business meeting in YYZ and then the same day need to travel to BOS to attend a conference am I breaking cabotage laws then?
By a strict reading of the law, yes. This is why most Alaska cruises depart Vancouver, not Seattle: the cruise ships used are foreign-flagged, so they cannot deliver passengers from one US point to another. Asiana got fined for marketing and selling similar packages: “shopping trips” for Guam residents at ICN on their way from GUM to the mainland.
Perhaps because they’re trying to follow the law?
Back on topic,
You are mistaken. There is no DOT policy on downgrades.
Last edited by jsloan; Nov 3, 2019 at 4:42 pm Reason: Fixed quote
Nov 3, 2019, 8:36 am
#97
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,126
Could we be missing the essence of this whole saga? First, though, isn't a *A Gold benefit access to E+ seating (or equivalent across the other airlines) on a space-available basis? Someone here will know.
More important, I think how this whole thing transpired may explain how it ended up. A mythical conversation:
PAX: "My inbound was late and I missed my connection"
GA: "We don't have any other flights today with PP seating"
PAX: "Well just put me in F on the next flight to SFO"
GA: "We don't have any available seats in F"
PAX: "Then kick someone out their seat and put me in it"
GA: "We don't kick people out of their seats"
PAX: "In that case, put me on the next flight across the ocean to London and then back across the ocean again to SFO, all in PP"
GA thinking to him/herself: "Who does this guy or gal think they are?"
GA: "Sir/ma'am, here's you E- (not literally) boarding pass"
GA thinking to her/himself: "Let's hope we don't have to deal with this dude again"
More important, I think how this whole thing transpired may explain how it ended up. A mythical conversation:
PAX: "My inbound was late and I missed my connection"
GA: "We don't have any other flights today with PP seating"
PAX: "Well just put me in F on the next flight to SFO"
GA: "We don't have any available seats in F"
PAX: "Then kick someone out their seat and put me in it"
GA: "We don't kick people out of their seats"
PAX: "In that case, put me on the next flight across the ocean to London and then back across the ocean again to SFO, all in PP"
GA thinking to him/herself: "Who does this guy or gal think they are?"
GA: "Sir/ma'am, here's you E- (not literally) boarding pass"
GA thinking to her/himself: "Let's hope we don't have to deal with this dude again"
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Nov 3, 2019 at 10:27 am Reason: removed unneeded & inappropriate comment
Nov 3, 2019, 9:27 am
#98
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Leaving aside EWR-HNL, the longest UA domestic flight is a smidge over six hours. Would anyone seriously bite off their nose to spite their face by waiting 'days' for a PP seat to get to where the want to go? I've taken a PP flight, it's ok but certainly not airplane nirvana for which I'd overnight in an airport hotel at EWR/LAX/SFO.
I've been in many situations where IRROPS have put me onto other flights with no F or E+ seats left and I flew in the back. My unpalatable alternative for most of these situations would've been to fly the next day in the class I purchased, and that's just crazy. After all, for most of us, flying is not the purpose for our trip, it is merely the means to get to our destination.
Nov 3, 2019, 10:53 am
#99
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland CA
Programs: DL Gold, AS MVPG, Globalist
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I think the point still stands tho, even with E+. Why buy PP when a missed connection virtually guarantees you'll be in economy, with a refund from discount PP to full fare Y. Better to just buy Y, or spring for J, in the first place. At least on domestic routes.
Nov 3, 2019, 11:16 am
#100
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Posts: 57,595
A lot of people on this thread seem to disagree. "You booked economy, you flew economy."
I think the point still stands tho, even with E+. Why buy PP when a missed connection virtually guarantees you'll be in economy, with a refund from discount PP to full fare Y. Better to just buy Y, or spring for J, in the first place. At least on domestic routes.
I think the point still stands tho, even with E+. Why buy PP when a missed connection virtually guarantees you'll be in economy, with a refund from discount PP to full fare Y. Better to just buy Y, or spring for J, in the first place. At least on domestic routes.
Nov 3, 2019, 4:44 pm
#101
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Internationally, UA can potentially reroute you on another carrier. Domestically, that’s much less realistic.
Nov 3, 2019, 4:59 pm
#102
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Nov 3, 2019, 5:44 pm
#103
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
No. Why would one carrier subsidize another carrier's loyal customers with perks that another carrier doesn't reciprocate? Loyalty belongs to another, and other carriers either do not have, or do not provide such a perk, therefore UA would be eating a bill that wouldn't be returned by others in a like fashion with no bump in sales due to FF loyalty to UA.
Nov 3, 2019, 6:48 pm
#104
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,126
No. Why would one carrier subsidize another carrier's loyal customers with perks that another carrier doesn't reciprocate? Loyalty belongs to another, and other carriers either do not have, or do not provide such a perk, therefore UA would be eating a bill that wouldn't be returned by others in a like fashion with no bump in sales due to FF loyalty to UA.
Nov 3, 2019, 8:41 pm
#105
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Whether the law is broken is not for the carrier to decide. So long as they don't knowingly sell a ticket that breaks cabotage rules they should be fine. A multi-city trip that crosses national borders in a day may again be a legitimate request.
Correct although as others eluded to later that's an unreasonable request. Had he asked for E+ initially or be booked on OAL with PY that would be one thing. Being asked to be "deported" from the United States to re-enter the United States and dealing with all the regulatory and other red tape associated with it is unreasonable, particularly given the real risk for IRROPs.
Respectfully disagree. The DoT does have an explicit policy on downgrades:
Getting back to the topic at hand now that the OP has completed their trip they need to think about what to do next:
James
Respectfully disagree. The DoT does have an explicit policy on downgrades:
Downgrading - A passenger is downgraded from a higher class of seating to a lower class. In this case, the passenger is entitled to a refund for the difference in price.
- They should request the difference in price from UA that should be granted without debate per DoT policies and discussion on this thread
- They should request for a goodwill gesture for the poor service recovery since they lost the PY seat they paid for and had to sit middle-seat in E-
- They should look at their milage account to see what fare code got credited. In the worst case scenario they could have been rebooked into K class and earn next to nothing points/status on NZ
James