UM Placed on incorrect flight at EWR
Jul 2, 2019, 11:28 pm
#76
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The whole journey from RDU was on a SAS ticketed PNR according to the mom.
If UA didn’t force such teenagers to use the UAM service to go from RDU, this incident wouldn’t have happened.
I am curious to know if this has made the news in Sweden yet. It seems to be getting some news attention here in the US, and not necessarily as much as it may yet get here.
Yes, UA’s policy is to hand off only to adults. I’m not sure what UA would do in practice were the age of the receiving custodial parent(s)/guardian(s) to be below 18 years of age.
If UA didn’t force such teenagers to use the UAM service to go from RDU, this incident wouldn’t have happened.
I am curious to know if this has made the news in Sweden yet. It seems to be getting some news attention here in the US, and not necessarily as much as it may yet get here.
Yes, UA’s policy is to hand off only to adults. I’m not sure what UA would do in practice were the age of the receiving custodial parent(s)/guardian(s) to be below 18 years of age.
What happens when the RDU agent denies boarding for the child? Another tweet happens, and UA is at fault.
This is a no-win situation for UA, especially when it's a ticket not even sold by them.
Jul 2, 2019, 11:39 pm
#77
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A complete non-story.
Jul 2, 2019, 11:57 pm
#78
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https://www.foxnews.com/travel/unite...cosmic-failure
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa...amp/1616641001
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...%3fid=64093506
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost....g-country/amp/
So that’s USA Today, NY Post, Fox and ABC. And that’s not even all of the coverage. Even “Sputnik News” got it. And the UK’s Independent:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...766.html%3famp
And the list goes on and on.
What happens when the teenager son wander off without UM service, and did not board any European flight? Mom can still tweet, and news happens, and UA would still be (inadvertently) at fault.
What happens when the RDU agent denies boarding for the child? Another tweet happens, and UA is at fault.
This is a no-win situation for UA, especially when it's a ticket not even sold by them.
What happens when the RDU agent denies boarding for the child? Another tweet happens, and UA is at fault.
This is a no-win situation for UA, especially when it's a ticket not even sold by them.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 3, 2019 at 12:10 am
Jul 3, 2019, 5:16 am
#79
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I'm here now, and I haven't heard much. Then again, I only have access to the regional newspaper, and we haven't had the TV on in the evenings except to watch the World Cup and some PGA Tour golf.
Jul 3, 2019, 7:47 am
#80
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Sure, exceptions can be achieved sometimes, but not reliably. UA explicitly put this exception outside of their policy, and indeed failed to deliver on it here. UA doesn't want to do it, and isn't doing it reliably.
Because defending lawsuits successfully is well known to be low cost, and without other ramifications like both hard and soft costs of public relations? No.
Using litigation as an excuse for UA’s policy would make more sense if the airlines lacked all ability to get a signed waiver to limit liability of sorts.
Unless and until you’ve successfully sued an airline in court in the US and gotten a public court judgment in your favor from doing so, it’s hard to buy the excuse of “oh, if but not for the lawsuits”.
Unless and until you’ve successfully sued an airline in court in the US and gotten a public court judgment in your favor from doing so, it’s hard to buy the excuse of “oh, if but not for the lawsuits”.
Last edited by mduell; Jul 3, 2019 at 8:18 am
Jul 3, 2019, 8:00 am
#81
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GUWonder: Can you tell us what you know (not think, know) about this incident that is not simply from the Mom's tweets and several news stories whose bases also seems to be entirely the Mom's tweets? I'm not trying to be accusatory, but you are repeatedly telling posters that their possible versions of these events are wrong, and I think we would all like to know why you know that they are wrong other than for the fact that they are in conflict with the Mom's tweets. Thanks.
Jul 3, 2019, 9:07 am
#82
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Eurowings has also come out and said it was a person working for UA who had brought Eurowings the 14 year old at EWR for placement on the EWR-DUS flight and handed him over for boarding at the gate.
The information provided above doesn’t just rely upon the mother’s tweets, the father’s comments to the media, the father’s comments on social media, and the sister’s comments on some blog, but those all have largely lined up with what Eurowings and SAS have said and/or have not run in contradiction with what the other involved parties have stated.
PANYNJ officers and DHS employees at EWR got involved in this too in their own way. And SAS saved the day after the mess-ups by UA and by Eurowings.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa...amp/1616641001
The information provided above doesn’t just rely upon the mother’s tweets, the father’s comments to the media, the father’s comments on social media, and the sister’s comments on some blog, but those all have largely lined up with what Eurowings and SAS have said and/or have not run in contradiction with what the other involved parties have stated.
PANYNJ officers and DHS employees at EWR got involved in this too in their own way. And SAS saved the day after the mess-ups by UA and by Eurowings.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa...amp/1616641001
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 3, 2019 at 10:04 am
Jul 3, 2019, 5:13 pm
#83
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I thought that a plane could only take off with the right number of passengers. You often see FAs counting passengers before closing the door. Similar to when the ground crew have to recount the bags, when there was one too many, or one too few.
In this case, the Eurowings flight should have ended up with an additional passenger. How should the crew react to that? Verify everyone's boarding passes? Ask everyone if they are on the right flight?
In this case, the Eurowings flight should have ended up with an additional passenger. How should the crew react to that? Verify everyone's boarding passes? Ask everyone if they are on the right flight?
Jul 3, 2019, 5:31 pm
#84
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Two additional failures:
1. Why didn't the teenager call his parents? He deplaned the Dusseldorf bound plane at EWR in the late afternoon and had at least 5h. That would have prevented so much of this mess.
2. SAS shouldn't book a 14 year old on a UA codeshare, as it violates UA's UM policy.
On the second point, as a UA FF, I book my (little) kids on their own tickets all the time, or I split their itineraries away from me. That's better for upgrades and points tickets. It's only when you arrive at checkin (like this story) that the UM logic plays out. We once got two free business class upgrades from OZ when the UM logic didn't play out correctly.
1. Why didn't the teenager call his parents? He deplaned the Dusseldorf bound plane at EWR in the late afternoon and had at least 5h. That would have prevented so much of this mess.
2. SAS shouldn't book a 14 year old on a UA codeshare, as it violates UA's UM policy.
On the second point, as a UA FF, I book my (little) kids on their own tickets all the time, or I split their itineraries away from me. That's better for upgrades and points tickets. It's only when you arrive at checkin (like this story) that the UM logic plays out. We once got two free business class upgrades from OZ when the UM logic didn't play out correctly.
Jul 3, 2019, 5:34 pm
#85
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I thought that a plane could only take off with the right number of passengers. You often see FAs counting passengers before closing the door. Similar to when the ground crew have to recount the bags, when there was one too many, or one too few.
In this case, the Eurowings flight should have ended up with an additional passenger. How should the crew react to that? Verify everyone's boarding passes? Ask everyone if they are on the right flight?
In this case, the Eurowings flight should have ended up with an additional passenger. How should the crew react to that? Verify everyone's boarding passes? Ask everyone if they are on the right flight?
Eurowings EWR-DUS gate agent had to page for a missing passenger on EWR-DUS before this UA UAM was handed over to Eurowings Something to factor in with regard to whether or not Eurowings cabin crew made a mistake with the passenger count.
Jul 3, 2019, 6:32 pm
#86
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Eurowings has also come out and said it was a person working for UA who had brought Eurowings the 14 year old at EWR for placement on the EWR-DUS flight and handed him over for boarding at the gate.
The information provided above doesn’t just rely upon the mother’s tweets, the father’s comments to the media, the father’s comments on social media, and the sister’s comments on some blog, but those all have largely lined up with what Eurowings and SAS have said and/or have not run in contradiction with what the other involved parties have stated.
PANYNJ officers and DHS employees at EWR got involved in this too in their own way. And SAS saved the day after the mess-ups by UA and by Eurowings.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa...amp/1616641001
The information provided above doesn’t just rely upon the mother’s tweets, the father’s comments to the media, the father’s comments on social media, and the sister’s comments on some blog, but those all have largely lined up with what Eurowings and SAS have said and/or have not run in contradiction with what the other involved parties have stated.
PANYNJ officers and DHS employees at EWR got involved in this too in their own way. And SAS saved the day after the mess-ups by UA and by Eurowings.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa...amp/1616641001
Jul 3, 2019, 7:59 pm
#87
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SAS doesn’t allow — nor is it allowed — booking any and every itinerary asked for by customers. There are rules about what it can and cannot book.
UA has agreements with SAS to let SAS enter into contracts (with passengers/customers) that include UA flights and to use codeshares for UA operated flights on those contracts. Some of those inter-airline agreements may include allowances to some passengers on UA planes that UA contracts for UA’s own flight may not grant some passengers. Whether or not that kind of stuff has been or is something for United and SAS to address when it comes to UAM policies and practices, I don’t know at this point at least. UA’s current UAM policy is less mature than SAS’s, pun intended.
Codesharing between US and EU+ airlines isn’t allowed without governmental approvals. That may or may not mean something in this regard, but if it meant anything with regard to UAM policies and practices it would surprise me.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 3, 2019 at 8:28 pm
Jul 3, 2019, 10:32 pm
#88
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UA messed up no doubt.
I really don't know why Americans are so up-tight when it comes to UM. I did my first solo international trip when I was 13 and we were always very careful to avoid any of US based airlines.
Many parents in Asia send their 13/14/15 year old kids unaccompanied to the US or Europe all the time.
I really don't know why Americans are so up-tight when it comes to UM. I did my first solo international trip when I was 13 and we were always very careful to avoid any of US based airlines.
Many parents in Asia send their 13/14/15 year old kids unaccompanied to the US or Europe all the time.
I used to fly BOS-IXE annually (with a double connection in FRA/ZRH/LHR and BOM/BLR) starting when I was 12. Never used thee UM service, and never had any problems. Just needed to carry some cash, some phone numbers, and some wits and it was never a problem at all, even during IRROPS.
And that was before every 12 year old had a smartphone... In todays day and age, I think it would be even easier for a 12+ year old with some travel experience to get around.
Jul 3, 2019, 11:14 pm
#89
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+1
I used to fly BOS-IXE annually (with a double connection in FRA/ZRH/LHR and BOM/BLR) starting when I was 12. Never used thee UM service, and never had any problems. Just needed to carry some cash, some phone numbers, and some wits and it was never a problem at all, even during IRROPS.
And that was before every 12 year old had a smartphone... In todays day and age, I think it would be even easier for a 12+ year old with some travel experience to get around.
I used to fly BOS-IXE annually (with a double connection in FRA/ZRH/LHR and BOM/BLR) starting when I was 12. Never used thee UM service, and never had any problems. Just needed to carry some cash, some phone numbers, and some wits and it was never a problem at all, even during IRROPS.
And that was before every 12 year old had a smartphone... In todays day and age, I think it would be even easier for a 12+ year old with some travel experience to get around.
If only UA’s UAM policy was more akin to SAS’s UAM policy, this incident wouldn’t have taken place and we wouldn’t be having this discussion thread.
Jul 3, 2019, 11:45 pm
#90
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Although it's still no excuse, I wonder if there was a gate change between check-in and when they dropped him off. It's very possible the UA agent too him to the gate on his boarding pass - especially given the long layover.