No cabin lights on during daylight - why?
Jun 29, 2019, 11:16 am
#61
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 439
The thing is that this technically qualifies as not following crew instructions (at least when an FA demands it) is "interference" which is in breach of 14 CFR 121.580 (penalty defined by 49 USC 46504). All it takes is for the FA to say that (s)he felt intimidated and of course the company/captain will have his/her back and the pax always gets the short straw.
Jun 29, 2019, 11:21 am
#62
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 439
Not if someone is recording it on a cell phone and it goes 'viral' on social media. 
Also not sure what judge / jury would believe an open window shade in any way "interferes" with a crew member. OTOH, insisting that the shade remain closed when a crew member asks one to open it (so s/he can ascertain whether or not there is damage to the wing, for example) would be construable as interference.
Also not sure what judge / jury would believe an open window shade in any way "interferes" with a crew member. OTOH, insisting that the shade remain closed when a crew member asks one to open it (so s/he can ascertain whether or not there is damage to the wing, for example) would be construable as interference.
- The crew is also responsible for the comfort of the passengers. I guess in the USA everything ends up in the court. In most of the other countries it would not. As others have mentioned the reading lights are there for passengers to read. If the glare from the sun or light from the outside is making it difficult for other passengers then the crew will instruct the shades to be closed and that is their right.
Virtually every law has a requirement for reasonableness. There are times it certainly does make sense to ask that it be raised, to see the condition of the aircraft (something sadly pilots seem unconcerned with in many a reconstruction scenarios) and relay that observation, but I'm not convinced there is a corollary to them being closed.
Jun 29, 2019, 11:40 am
#63
Join Date: Jun 2005
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You're the one trying to make a case out of a ham sandwich bud, not me. You cannot from the CFR, construe a case from the available data. The FA isn't actually there for your comfort, they are legally there for safety; you'd think a US traveler would know this given how often its their goto for not doing anything.
Virtually every law has a requirement for reasonableness. There are times it certainly does make sense to ask that it be raised, to see the condition of the aircraft (something sadly pilots seem unconcerned with in many a reconstruction scenarios) and relay that observation, but I'm not convinced there is a corollary to them being closed.
Virtually every law has a requirement for reasonableness. There are times it certainly does make sense to ask that it be raised, to see the condition of the aircraft (something sadly pilots seem unconcerned with in many a reconstruction scenarios) and relay that observation, but I'm not convinced there is a corollary to them being closed.
There are criminal consequences and civil consequences. One of the civil consequences is disobeying a crew members repeated request. As I have said I do not know much about the FAA laws in this case but trust it would be almost universal and that is how it is.
Jun 29, 2019, 1:48 pm
#64
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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As I said I do not know the rules and regulations in the USA but you try disobeying something like that in most other Airlines of other countries and you could end up being met by the Police on arrival. Not obeying the instructions of the crew ( it does not necessarily has to do only with the safety) would be the same in most other countries.
Jun 29, 2019, 3:17 pm
#65
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Arguing with a FA is a fool's gambit. No good can come of it.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28040354-post68.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26253434-post298.html
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Last edited by zombietooth; Jun 29, 2019 at 3:23 pm
Jun 29, 2019, 3:52 pm
#66
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
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I am in awe of those who stand up to an FA's request when they are "in-the-right", but sadly would lack the chutzpah to do so myself.
Jun 29, 2019, 7:32 pm
#67
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 439
As I said I do not know the rules and regulations in the USA but you try disobeying something like that in most other Airlines of other countries and you could end up being met by the Police on arrival. Not obeying the instructions of the crew ( it does not necessarily has to do only with the safety) would be the same in most other countries.
There are criminal consequences and civil consequences. One of the civil consequences is disobeying a crew members repeated request. As I have said I do not know much about the FAA laws in this case but trust it would be almost universal and that is how it is.
There are criminal consequences and civil consequences. One of the civil consequences is disobeying a crew members repeated request. As I have said I do not know much about the FAA laws in this case but trust it would be almost universal and that is how it is.
Jun 30, 2019, 11:57 am
#68
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: EVA Air , * G, QR Privilege Club S
Posts: 5,187
here it is
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 121—OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS
Subpart T—Flight Operations
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 121—OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS
Subpart T—Flight Operations
Jun 30, 2019, 12:46 pm
#69
Moderator: United Airlines
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Posts: 66,855
here it is
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 121—OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS
Subpart T—Flight Operations
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 121—OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS
Subpart T—Flight Operations