United Airlines Accuses Rogue Flight Attendants of Fraud
Mar 27, 2019, 4:04 pm
#16
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO / LHR
Programs: UA GS 2.2MM / UC / AS Gold 75K / Bonvoy Plat / Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,028
Efficiency ... a SYD trip carries 30 hours of pay, and is two boardings and all done in less than three days. At the complete other end of the scale, EWR-BOS and SFO-LAX would need 30 sectors to make the same flight pay, and it would involve 30 boardings (none of which are paid) / more days to complete. FAs also love Hawai’i “turns” from the West Coast, where they fly out and back for a 12 hour pay day. A friend of mine does those for 7 total days per month to hit her 84 hours and takes the rest of the month off.
Mar 27, 2019, 7:58 pm
#17
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 6,139
Randomly assigning crews to routes will lead to all kinds of unhappy crews. Hence a bidding process. Some FAs can try to get flights where they go home at night. Others get flights where they work the fewest days on the month but travel further. What other 'currency' could be used other than seniority? There are thousands of basically interchangeable FAs.
LAX
Mar 27, 2019, 8:44 pm
#18
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: CoUniHound 1K 1MM, AA EXP 2MM, DL Plat, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,625
Not sure that would provide enough differentiation between all of the FAs to be used as an effective currency. If the US airlines instituted a true purser position, who acted like a real supervisor who could rate FAs, then that may work. But I don't think management wants to pay for the position any more than the union wants it.
Mar 27, 2019, 9:28 pm
#19
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland CA
Programs: DL Gold, AS MVPG, Globalist
Posts: 1,008
Honestly they should either prevent swaps (what you bid is what you fly), or they should have a company sanctioned barter system. Anything else is inviting fraud.
I don’t see a huge problem with a company supported barter system; more seniority means you have a chance to make a little extra money from your fellow FAs. Probably reasonable if you’ve been working 10+ or 20+ years.
I don’t see a huge problem with a company supported barter system; more seniority means you have a chance to make a little extra money from your fellow FAs. Probably reasonable if you’ve been working 10+ or 20+ years.
Mar 27, 2019, 10:37 pm
#20
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rowley, MA / Edgartown, MA / Christiansted, St. Croix (USVI)
Programs: UA LT GS/4.96MM, Marriott LT Titanium, IHG Platinum, Global Entry, TSA Pre✓, Korea SeS, APEC
Posts: 579
Randomly assigning crews to routes will lead to all kinds of unhappy crews. Hence a bidding process. Some FAs can try to get flights where they go home at night. Others get flights where they work the fewest days on the month but travel further. What other 'currency' could be used other than seniority? There are thousands of basically interchangeable FAs.
Mar 27, 2019, 11:43 pm
#21
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SEA, SFO, PRG
Programs: UA 1k, Delta Gold
Posts: 77
There must be an employee performance rating system, why not allow the highest performing FA’s the first pick versus seniority. This would hopefully then inspire competition to improve performance. It’s a carrot not a stick. I don’t share the opinion that all FA’s are interchangeable, it’s a spectrum of performance, just like in any profession.
Mar 28, 2019, 6:45 am
#23
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,127
I should be noted the charge is some FA's were using their seniority to get highly desired routes for the sole purpose of selling access to those routes to less senior FAs. They never had any intention of flying them. That really is fraud, IMHO.
Mar 28, 2019, 7:00 am
#24
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,357
If true, the behavior of these FAs is abhorrent.
However, these sorts of threads lend themselves to senior-FA-bashing. I haven't always been friendly in my postings about UA FAs, but I'd like to point out that there are some tremendous senior FAs out there, and I would much rather have them on one of my flights than inexperienced young ones.
However, these sorts of threads lend themselves to senior-FA-bashing. I haven't always been friendly in my postings about UA FAs, but I'd like to point out that there are some tremendous senior FAs out there, and I would much rather have them on one of my flights than inexperienced young ones.
Mar 28, 2019, 8:36 am
#25
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,531
Randomly assigning crews to routes will lead to all kinds of unhappy crews. Hence a bidding process. Some FAs can try to get flights where they go home at night. Others get flights where they work the fewest days on the month but travel further. What other 'currency' could be used other than seniority? There are thousands of basically interchangeable FAs.
(1) Have FAs bid on routes (like now) but assign them in random order, e.g. shuffle the seniority list every month.
(2) Increase pay dynamically on the "crappy routes" until FAs bid on them organically.
I can think of some other ideas too.
One of the biggest problems with the seniority system is FAs feel trapped and unable to switch jobs e.g. to a competitor. They think UA mgmt is screwing them but they can't switch to DL, AA, etc. because they would start again on reserve status / crappy routes. They have invested many years in climbing the seniority ladder and it makes more sense to wait N years till retirement than to switch to another job they might be happier at. People who feel trapped in their jobs don't provide good service.
Likewise, management is only negotiating with the union rather than competing for labor in the traditional sense with the other airlines, for example by offering better pay or benefits. It's like all the airlines signed an agreement to make it as hard as possible for workers to switch employers. That's bad for workers and bad for customers.
Mar 28, 2019, 11:07 am
#26
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,195
I guess I'm in the minority here because I don't see a problem with seniority having its perks just as many people think GS or 1K status should have some perks. The airlines and union might think about making that seniority be based on time in the career rather than at the company in order to give FAs more flexibility on changing companies but if I was in a senior position at the company, I'd WANT the seniority based on time in the company so that I had an incentive for the best to stay with me rather than benefiting a competitor.
I noted immediately that the union was also behind charging the employees. That's good because the people this hurt most were fellow FAs. IMO, the best solution is the one they're taking: charge the suspects with fraud and then prove it. It's a much harder case but it means they don't have to hurt innocent senior FAs.
I noted immediately that the union was also behind charging the employees. That's good because the people this hurt most were fellow FAs. IMO, the best solution is the one they're taking: charge the suspects with fraud and then prove it. It's a much harder case but it means they don't have to hurt innocent senior FAs.
Mar 28, 2019, 11:19 am
#27
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: KEWR
Programs: Marriott Platinum
Posts: 794
I guess I'm in the minority here because I don't see a problem with seniority having its perks just as many people think GS or 1K status should have some perks. The airlines and union might think about making that seniority be based on time in the career rather than at the company in order to give FAs more flexibility on changing companies but if I was in a senior position at the company, I'd WANT the seniority based on time in the company so that I had an incentive for the best to stay with me rather than benefiting a competitor.
I noted immediately that the union was also behind charging the employees. That's good because the people this hurt most were fellow FAs. IMO, the best solution is the one they're taking: charge the suspects with fraud and then prove it. It's a much harder case but it means they don't have to hurt innocent senior FAs.
I noted immediately that the union was also behind charging the employees. That's good because the people this hurt most were fellow FAs. IMO, the best solution is the one they're taking: charge the suspects with fraud and then prove it. It's a much harder case but it means they don't have to hurt innocent senior FAs.
This is not as rampant an issue as FT would assume it is. Get the bad apples out and move on.
Mar 28, 2019, 12:20 pm
#28
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: CoUniHound 1K 1MM, AA EXP 2MM, DL Plat, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,625
Mar 28, 2019, 1:17 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,531
I was basing my comments on conversations I've had with FAs and other front-line workers. Some of them feel mistreated by their employer and trapped by the seniority system since it'd take 15 years to rebuild their seniority at another airline.
Mar 28, 2019, 1:29 pm
#30
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
15 years is still considered a junior FA at SFO - try 25 years - that is about the threshold to get international and Hawaii flying as a SFO based FA and even then it is not guaranteed.