United Airlines Accuses Rogue Flight Attendants of Fraud
#1
Original Poster
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United Airlines Accuses Rogue Flight Attendants of Fraud
Note that this article is primarily about senior flight attendants selling prime trip assignments to more junior attendants, and not about selling employee pass travel.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/unite...153535362.html
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/unite...153535362.html
#2
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 812
Why are there mandatory retirement ages for pilots but not flight attendants, despite flight attendants being there "primarily for your safety"? There's obviously a clear relationship between age and physical performance, reaction times, etc. and that would apply equally to pilots and flight attendants.
Not to mention that cases of fraud like this seem to be primarily committed by the more senior employees.
Not to mention that cases of fraud like this seem to be primarily committed by the more senior employees.
#3
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Why are there mandatory retirement ages for pilots but not flight attendants, despite flight attendants being there "primarily for your safety"? There's obviously a clear relationship between age and physical performance, reaction times, etc. and that would apply equally to pilots and flight attendants.
No one, including you, seriously believes there is the same level of physical performance and reaction times needed for a pilot and a flight attendant.
#4
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Why are there mandatory retirement ages for pilots but not flight attendants, despite flight attendants being there "primarily for your safety"? There's obviously a clear relationship between age and physical performance, reaction times, etc. and that would apply equally to pilots and flight attendants.
Not to mention that cases of fraud like this seem to be primarily committed by the more senior employees.
Not to mention that cases of fraud like this seem to be primarily committed by the more senior employees.
The history of mandatory pilot retirement age is an interesting story. A handshake deal between the an airline CEO (AA) and the head of the FAA many years ago was the reason it was instituted (to lower pilot costs, because the highest paid pilots would be forced to retire at 60.) It was raised to 65 in late 2007 to match ICAO, and there were political dealings then as well.
#5
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As for mandatory retirement age, FA's aren't there to do anything physically demanding related to your safety, just give instructions.
#6
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Not saying I condone this practice, but I can easily see why this happens in reality - junior FAs view this as a low-cost way of visiting bucket-list/iconic destinations (see social media to see what I mean).
#7
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I think you have a fault in your logic. There's no relation between the age of senior flight attendants and this kind of fraud. The opportunity for fraud is created by the union seniority bidding system, not age. Do a thought experiment: consider the effect of a hypothetical mandatory FA retirement age. Pick several different possible cutoff ages among the population of 50,000 United flight attendants. No matter what age you pick, there would still need to be 50,000 flight attendants (older retired ones would be replaced with younger ones). But you still have the same situation: 50,000 flight attendants and a route bidding system based strictly on seniority. You have the same opportunity for this kind of fraud, whereby the more senior FAs have an opportunity to sell their bids to FAs of lower seniority.
#8
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Note that this article is primarily about senior flight attendants selling prime trip assignments to more junior attendants, and not about selling employee pass travel.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/unite...153535362.html
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/unite...153535362.html
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Another consequence of the union-forced seniority system.
IMHO, staff each flight 50/50: half the crew seniority-based, half from the general pool of FAs.
Would most likely make for a more consistently pleasant inflight experience on those $10K+ J-class longhaul flights.
IMHO, staff each flight 50/50: half the crew seniority-based, half from the general pool of FAs.
Would most likely make for a more consistently pleasant inflight experience on those $10K+ J-class longhaul flights.
#10
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I think you have a fault in your logic. There's no relation between the age of senior flight attendants and this kind of fraud. The opportunity for fraud is created by the union seniority bidding system, not age. Do a thought experiment: consider the effect of a hypothetical mandatory FA retirement age. Pick several different possible cutoff ages among the population of 50,000 United flight attendants. No matter what age you pick, there would still need to be 50,000 flight attendants (older retired ones would be replaced with younger ones). But you still have the same situation: 50,000 flight attendants and a route bidding system based strictly on seniority. You have the same opportunity for this kind of fraud, whereby the more senior FAs have an opportunity to sell their bids to FAs of lower seniority.
#11
Join Date: May 2001
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Another consequence of the union-forced seniority system.
IMHO, staff each flight 50/50: half the crew seniority-based, half from the general pool of FAs.
Would most likely make for a more consistently pleasant inflight experience on those $10K+ J-class longhaul flights.
IMHO, staff each flight 50/50: half the crew seniority-based, half from the general pool of FAs.
Would most likely make for a more consistently pleasant inflight experience on those $10K+ J-class longhaul flights.
#12
Join Date: Oct 2017
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Can we at least have some resemblance of objectivity on the headline that the AFA is fully on board with it the headline might be misunderstood by those who didnt read the article thinking its another evil management trying to destroy unions type of ordeal
#13
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Randomly assigning crews to routes will lead to all kinds of unhappy crews. Hence a bidding process. Some FAs can try to get flights where they go home at night. Others get flights where they work the fewest days on the month but travel further. What other 'currency' could be used other than seniority? There are thousands of basically interchangeable FAs.
#14
Join Date: Oct 2017
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While I do not condone fraud, there was/is a potential upside to this practice from a passenger perspective. If a FA would prefer "trading favors" to move off a route with a FA that wants to work the route (be it for better pay/hours/locations), the passenger is apt to receive better service. I know some might think it is a stretch, but a FA that would prefer not being there vs. one that does makes a huge difference. Just my opinion, I may be wrong.
in other words, what Dr Dre did is still partially *acceptable* but not Felicity or Lori
#15
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Why are all the "jaded, senior" crew bidding on these destinations? I'm guessing it's less work, more money, or some combination. Maybe the fix is to pay someone their salary regardless of destinations, flight times, etc.