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UA applies for 6x additional HND slots - UA gets EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX

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Old Feb 21, 2019, 1:00 pm
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[/QUOTE]
United Airlines Adds Service to Tokyo, Haneda with Routes from Chicago, Los Angeles, New York/Newark and Washington, D.C.

CHICAGO, Aug. 16, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- United Airlines today announced it will begin service between four of its U.S. hubs and Tokyo's Haneda International Airport, located approximately 15 minutes from downtown Tokyo. United will begin operating nonstop service between Chicago, Los Angeles, New York/Newark and Washington, D.C. and Haneda on March 28, 2020, subject to government approval. United currently offers daily nonstop service between San Francisco and Haneda. Tickets for United's new Haneda flights will be available for purchase starting Saturday, August 17.

In addition to United's new Haneda flights, Tokyo's Narita International airport will continue to be a hub for United with nonstop daily service between Narita and Denver, Guam, Honolulu, Houston, Los Angeles, New York/Newark and San Francisco. With the start of these new routes, United will no longer serve Narita from its Chicago and Washington D.C. hubs, and will shift these flights from Narita to Haneda.

"Our new service to Haneda gives our customers more choice and connections to more than 65 destinations throughout Asia. With service beginning next spring, we look forward to providing convenient service for the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020, and beyond," said Patrick Quayle, United's vice president of International Network. "United has offered nonstop service between the U.S. and Japan for more than 40 years and we are excited to expand our Japan network at Tokyo's Haneda Airport and continue to be the largest U.S. carrier to Japan."

United commends the efforts of Secretary Elaine Chao, her team at the U.S. Department of Transportation and officials at the U.S. State Department in making additional services at Tokyo Haneda a reality starting spring 2020.[/quote]





2019 HANEDA COMBINATION SERVICES
ALLOCATION PROCEEDING
DOCKET DOT-OST-2019-0014


U.S. Department of Transportation Tentatively Grants United Airlines Authority to Operate New Service to Tokyo Haneda
New slots from four hubs to Haneda Airport will expand United's best-in-class Japan route network to better meet demand from U.S. consumers and businesses
CHICAGO, May 16, 2019
-- The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) today announced that United Airlines was tentatively granted a total of four daily nonstop flights to Tokyo Haneda Airport (HND). The slots will be allocated for flights from United's hubs at Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD), Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD) and Los Angeles International Airport (LAX). Pending completion of an aviation agreement between the U.S. and Japanese governments later this year, the flights are expected to begin service by the summer of 2020.

"As the largest U.S. carrier to Asia, we are excited to see we were granted additional slots to Haneda to help more Americans travel between our nation and Japan's capital city, which will offer our customers an unparalleled experience while maximizing choice," said United Airlines President Scott Kirby. "We would like to thank the U.S. Department of Transportation for its work in reviewing our proposal and advocating for what is best for the American public and for our economy. We also recognize the efforts of the U.S. State Department's work with the DOT to enable additional service at Haneda."

Together, the flights from these U.S. mainland hub cities will connect Tokyo Haneda with:
  • The U.S.'s largest metropolitan area and center of finance and commerce, Newark/New York;
  • The most important logistics and transportation hub in the Midwest, Chicago;
  • The seat of the U.S. federal government, Washington, D.C.; and
  • Additional U.S. carrier service in the largest U.S. mainland - Tokyo market at Los Angeles.
This announcement will strengthen United's broad-based and end-to-end network between the United States and Japan. United's proposed flights to Haneda would allow U.S. consumers to make connections to 37 points in Japan via United's joint venture partner All Nippon Airways (ANA), strengthening United's existing comprehensive network. Throughout this proceeding United has been the only U.S. airline to recognize the unique benefits that Tokyo Haneda and Tokyo Narita offer to the traveling public.


Only United has committed to providing service to both Tokyo airports from regions across the United States. United has proven its long-term commitment to Tokyo as a key gateway in Asia, serving Tokyo from all seven of its U.S. mainland hubs. United also serves 31 markets in the Asia/Pacific region, more than any other U.S. carrier, and has successfully launched 11 new nonstop flights from the U.S. mainland to destinations throughout the Asia/Pacific region since 2014.
United Applies to Serve Tokyo Haneda from Six Leading U.S. Hubs Where Demand Is Highest

Proposed daily nonstop flights from hubs at Newark Liberty, Chicago O'Hare, Washington Dulles, Los Angeles International, Houston George Bush and Guam will maximize choice and convenience for U.S. consumers and businesses

CHICAGO, Feb. 21, 2019
-- United Airlines announced today it has filed an application with the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) for a total of six daily nonstop flights to Tokyo Haneda Airport (HND) from Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD), Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD), Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), Houston George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH) and Guam's A.B. Won Pat International Airport (GUM). Pending completion of an aviation agreement between the U.S. and Japanese governments later this year, and slots awarded by DOT, the flights are expected to begin service by the summer of 2020.

United has presented a proposal maximized to meet consumer demand and benefit U.S. travelers. Together, the flights from five U.S. mainland hub cities and Guam will connect Tokyo Haneda with 112 U.S. airports, representing approximately two thirds of U.S.-Tokyo demand, or more than three million annual Tokyo bookings. With United's proposed routes representing five of the six largest metropolitan areas in the U.S. mainland and a combined population of nearly 56 million, the new flights requested in this proceeding will provide consumers with more choices and more convenient options when selecting Tokyo Haneda for their travel plans.

"If awarded by the DOT, these new nonstop flights would expand United's best-in-class Japan route network to better meet demand from U.S. consumers and businesses," said United Airlines President Scott Kirby. "Tokyo is a hub of 21st century global commerce and innovation and one of the world's most popular tourist destinations. Today's filing demonstrates United's unparalleled commitment to helping more Americans travel between our nation and Japan's capital city. Our proposed flights to Tokyo Haneda will offer an unrivaled experience and maximize choice and convenience for our customers traveling between the United States and Tokyo for the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020 and beyond."

United's proposed daily flights from Newark/New York, Los Angeles and Guam would supplement the airline's existing daily flights between those hubs and Tokyo's Narita International Airport (NRT), while United would shift existing daily nonstop Chicago, Washington D.C. and Houston flights from Tokyo Narita to Tokyo Haneda.United's application will also support American businesses and help grow the U.S. economy by offering direct flights from key business, government and cultural hubs where demand for flights to Haneda, the closest airport to central Tokyo, is the highest. With these new flights in place, United would provide Haneda service from:
  • The largest market for travel demand between the U.S. mainland and Tokyo (Los Angeles);
  • The two largest markets for travel demand between the East Coast and Tokyo (Newark/New York and Washington, D.C.);
  • The two largest markets for travel demand between the central U.S. and Tokyo (Chicago and Houston); and
  • Guam, a market with significant travel demand from a Japanese tourist base that is critical to the island's tourism industry, economy and job market.
United's proposal would help realize the full potential of these new routes for U.S. consumers and businesses by expanding United's broad-based and end-to-end network between the United States and Japan.

United's proposed flights to Haneda would allow U.S. consumers to make connections to 37 points in Japan via United's joint venture partner All Nippon Airways (ANA), strengthening United's existing comprehensive network when combined with nonstop or single-connection service from 112 U.S. airports.

United has proven its long-term commitment to Tokyo as a key gateway in Asia, serving Tokyo from 100 percent of its U.S. hubs. United also serves 31 markets in the Asia/Pacific region, more than any other U.S. carrier, and has successfully launched 11 new nonstop flights from the U.S. mainland to destinations throughout the Asia/Pacific region since 2014.United's application is in response to the U.S. DOT instituting a competitive route proceeding to allocate slot pairs, with today's application filed under DOT proceeding # DOT-OST-2019-0014. For more information about United's bid, please visit www.UnitedToHaneda.com.
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UA applies for 6x additional HND slots - UA gets EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX

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Old Feb 22, 2019, 11:23 am
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by east_west
But the NH ORD and IAD flights to NRT still would (unless NH switches those too).
Surely you realize there's a material difference between UA metal and NH metal . . .
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 11:35 am
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by dkc192
Better for connections within Japan, without a doubt. For connections beyond, especially to SE Asia, far worse. See the following NH flight departure times ex-HND to destinations not served by UA:

BKK: 0010, 0050, 1100
KUL: 0005
HAN: 0855
MNL: 0935
CGK: 1020, 2255
CAN: 0925

Similar story for AA/JL.
This problem, is solved, in part, if UA introduced 787-9 service SFO-BKK in the same timeframe. (There's a separate thread to discuss this, but one can dream!)
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 12:40 pm
  #78  
 
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This all strikes me as a natural evolution in TPAC air service. NRT existed for two purposes: to go to Japan and to go to east and SE Asia. NWA operated a large hub at NRT and (IIRC), so did Pan Am. With the continued expansion of direct service to many more cities throughout East and SE Asia, facilitated by several more types of aircraft (remember when 747s were basically the only option?), the need to connect a large volume of travelers at NRT has diminished. Sure, it still has a role as a connecting airport but not to the extent it once had.
So with options to many markets increasing, why not shift some service to where people flying to Japan really want to go now that slots are available? For those that must fly beyond Japan, they weren't going to forward connect to a US airline anyway so let the Japanese carriers handle that end-to-end, often still through NRT.
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Last edited by JimInOhio; Feb 22, 2019 at 3:37 pm Reason: added word for clarity
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 1:24 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by drewguy
Surely you realize there's a material difference between UA metal and NH metal . . .
yes they are helpfully outlined in Hirohito's response that you quoted... of course there are differences, but the IAD/ORD option will exist with NH, minus the UA benefits and UA annoyances. I'd rather UA stick with NRT because I connect through often from the east coast, and when I'm going to Tokyo don't mind taking an extra 20-30 minutes to get to central Tokyo vs HND.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 2:54 pm
  #80  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan
I'd have to imagine there'd be a pretty substantial amount of Fly America Act traffic on GUM-HND also.
DOD traffic. Yokosuka and Yokota are much closer to HND.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:27 pm
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by wxguy
This problem, is solved, in part, if UA introduced 787-9 service SFO-BKK in the same timeframe. (There's a separate thread to discuss this, but one can dream!)
Yes but the EWR/ORD/IAD and east coast passengers will complain that going through SFO will increase travel time, extra ATC delays, going through US CBP, etc. So ideally, UA should use the HND slots and start HND-SIN/BKK 5th freedom flights.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:38 pm
  #82  
 
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Originally Posted by east_west
when I'm going to Tokyo don't mind taking an extra 20-30 minutes to get to central Tokyo vs HND.
With the JV I wonder how much UA is actually trying to compete with NH or compete for Japanese/Japan-based flyers but for those of us who live in the Tokyo region, many many of us are closer to HND and for those of us who travel a lot, I reckon, that extra 60–70 minutes in my case in central Yokohama, and the extra expense (over USD30 vs just over USD5) can really add up. Not to mention the very frequent flights to HND from all major airports in Japan would make it very easy to connect at HND for flights to the US>

I for one dream of a time when I can mainly—or perchance only—use HND. I'd use it more but I don't want to connect in SFO most of the time since my destinations are much further east.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:55 pm
  #83  
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Originally Posted by j2simpso
How does HND compare to NRT in terms of lounges and airport facilities?

It's my understanding that HND is better in terms of getting into Tokyo (there's a monorail you can stay on that gets you to the fish market in under an hour). However, I really enjoyed using the NH "signature" lounge at NRT with the sushi and ramen bar.
The only real benefit of HND is its proximity to Tokyo-proper, although I would honestly rather sit and relax on the NEX train from Narita, vs cramming myself and bags into a hot, steamy, standing-room only local Keikyu train that feels like it is taking just as long.

I actually don't mind the HND ANA Lounge - my only issue is one of comfort and familiarity which I have at NRT because I'm more a creature of habit than change, and I've been doing my thing at NRT for many years and don't want to change, but I can't quite understand what the Japanese government is doing by moving so many flights from NRT to HND especially with UA and DL closing their regional hub operations. I am not following NRT traffic reports so I have no idea if the airport is still growing, or if the HND shift and hub closure is dramatically shrinking traffic there - which would be a very strange decision to shift traffic if this was the case.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 4:01 pm
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by east_west
Another interesting item in UA's application was that they suggested LAX-HND would be a 787-10, which would be the first TPAC route for that plane.
I thought UA was starting 787-10 routes from SFO to NRT/PEK/HKG starting in April? I personally plan to try one out soon after they start up. Not to disrespect my fellow Californians in La-La Land; I'm very happy they're getting a big plane too. ;-)
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 4:50 pm
  #85  
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Originally Posted by east_west
You are right, but I was discounting the likelihood of UA getting either LAX or GUM, and for AA to get both LAS/DFW, but it is certainly possible.

We could certainly see downgauges in the long term, most of these routes are currently 777s and nearly all the routes could be served by any flavor of 787. Another interesting item in UA's application was that they suggested LAX-HND would be a 787-10, which would be the first TPAC route for that plane.
UA flew 787-10 on IAD-PEK-IAD earlier this week, although not regularly scheduled on that route.

Originally Posted by Brucemcdou
I thought UA was starting 787-10 routes from SFO to NRT/PEK/HKG starting in April? I personally plan to try one out soon after they start up. Not to disrespect my fellow Californians in La-La Land; I'm very happy they're getting a big plane too. ;-)
I have not heard that. They certainly don’t have enough frames to do what you mentioned routes above in addition to the announced EWR- EU routes this summer.

SFO-PEK is getting refurbished 772 year-round.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 5:02 pm
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by UA_Flyer
I have not heard that. They certainly don’t have enough frames to do what you mentioned routes above in addition to the announced EWR- EU routes this summer.
My impression is they are currently planned for TATL flying with the initial batch being used for EWR to Europe; 787-10 has joined UA fleet, where will fly and why and UA to operate 6 TATL markets with 78J from EWR.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 5:41 pm
  #87  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
I can't quite understand what the Japanese government is doing by moving so many flights from NRT to HND especially with UA and DL closing their regional hub operations. I am not following NRT traffic reports so I have no idea if the airport is still growing, or if the HND shift and hub closure is dramatically shrinking traffic there - which would be a very strange decision to shift traffic if this was the case.
http://www.schedule-coordination.jp/...an_airport.pdf

The goal is to dramatically expand both HND & NRT capacity to hit 60M visitors by 2030.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 5:48 pm
  #88  
 
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Originally Posted by UA_Flyer
I have not heard that. They certainly don’t have enough frames to do what you mentioned routes above in addition to the announced EWR- EU routes this summer.
SFO-PEK is getting refurbished 772 year-round.
Thanks UAFlyer and East_West; you made me go check. You're right/I'm wrong; those routes are being flown with either renovated 772s or the new 777-300ERs starting in April. I had been focused on the routes with the new Premium Economy seats and they're on those planes as well as the 787-10s.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 6:39 pm
  #89  
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Originally Posted by joejones
I have no idea why UA wants to burn a valuable HND slot on GUM, which has to be their lowest-margin destination out of TYO by far. Japanese and other Asians only go to GUM for vacation if they can't afford to go to Hawaii.
There is no downside to applying for GUM-HND. One of my closest friends does college admissions consulting, and we often discuss whether or not it's better to limit students to apply for Harvard/Yale v Harvard/Princeton/Stanford/Yale. I prefer the former strategy myself because my (extremely famous) high school endorsed it, but I'm also fine with the latter.

Last edited by moondog; Feb 22, 2019 at 6:49 pm
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 6:53 pm
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by moondog
There is no downside to applying for GUM-HND. One of my closest friends does college admissions consulting, and we often discuss whether or not it's better to limit students to apply for Harvard/Yale v Harvard/Princeton/Stanford/Yale. I prefer the former strategy myself because my (extremely famous) high school endorsed it, but I'm also fine with the latter.
Haven't Princeton and Stanford left Yale in the dust? On the other hand, Guam is a great place for a vacation, way better QPR than HNL.... the better analogy might be applying to Harvard/Princeton/Stanford/UT-Austin/U.Michigan.
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