Why United's pacific-route business class loading is always high?
Oct 14, 2018, 4:29 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 83
Why United's pacific-route business class loading is always high?
I'm just curious. United is the only one among all carriers from the US to Japan that uses non-direct aisle access seat (which makes it worse, 2-4-2 config for ORD-NRT) and I personally think United's service level is also the lowest among everyone. Why its loading is always so high (which is really obvious when compared to AA or DL)? I understand that Japanese carriers have higher loading because they do provide higher level of products almost everywhere, but UA? I just don't understand why its crappy hard product (I'm taking about the 2-2-2 config or the 2-4-2, not the new polaris which isn't used too much) can have like more than twice loading than that of AA or DL (sometimes is even slightly higher than JL!), almost everyday for LAX-TYO.
Oct 14, 2018, 4:48 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London & Sonoma CA
Programs: UA 1K, MM *G for life, BAEC Gold
Posts: 10,228
UA's business class product is now generally quite strong. Yes the 2-4-2 seating is not the best but it's only on a few planes now and, despite all the moans on FT, the seats are quite comfortable (I think more so than on the newer 787s. The issue is you have to climb over people (or be climbed over) but the way the seats are set up, it's really not that difficult. The Polaris lounges are excellent and IMHO, UA is now up there on its Business Class product. With its *A miles and MP program, it's quite a compelling proposition for those who aren't simply occasional flyers.
Oct 14, 2018, 5:30 am
#3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,116
I'm just curious. United is the only one among all carriers from the US to Japan that uses non-direct aisle access seat (which makes it worse, 2-4-2 config for ORD-NRT) and I personally think United's service level is also the lowest among everyone. Why its loading is always so high (which is really obvious when compared to AA or DL)? I understand that Japanese carriers have higher loading because they do provide higher level of products almost everywhere, but UA? I just don't understand why its crappy hard product (I'm taking about the 2-2-2 config or the 2-4-2, not the new polaris which isn't used too much) can have like more than twice loading than that of AA or DL (sometimes is even slightly higher than JL!), almost everyday for LAX-TYO.
Oct 14, 2018, 6:25 am
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
It is well priced for large corporate contracts which are the "engine" which drives TPAC traffic. There is a large and healthy route network with many options. The thread count of the hot towels isn't a major factor outside of FT.
Oct 14, 2018, 7:55 am
#6
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,309
Because the majority of the people in those seats are business travelers and they’re paying for a convenient schedule. Their employers are likely paying for it and many of those employers have negotiated discounted prices in exchange for a certain volume. I’m in DC and I know a lot of people who travel to London Monday- Friday every week for work, paying j fares of $10k-$13k toundtrip for work. They get on the plane in dc fall asleep then wake up in London and go to work. They don’t care about all the stuff people complain about endlessly here, and the ua seats, even the dreaded 2-4-2 , are comfortable and enable sleep. These are the people who drive the paid j business. Not those who come here and complain endlessly about certain service standards while traveling on upgrades or deep discounted j class tix.
Oct 14, 2018, 8:21 am
#8
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,573
Oct 14, 2018, 8:22 am
#9
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: DYKWIA, But I'm a "Diamond Guest" UA 1K/2MM
Posts: 2,264
If you are starting your trip from anywhere outside SFO-LAX, you're pretty much compelled to either interline or go with United. Some like me, also fly domestically and to Europe. There's an advantage to accumulating miles/status in one place, even if it is a crappy airline like United.
Oct 14, 2018, 8:29 am
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,115
At least on those 4-across planes, there is an escape hatch for high $ travelers: The F cabin. If you are GS or even likely 1K on a D+ fare, you have a very good chance of being able to upgrade yourself to the best seat in the UA fleet today. Or, your plane is swapped to Polaris config. Win-win.
Certainly that isn’t the case for most, but it is one reason UA keeps its high value folks happy.
Certainly that isn’t the case for most, but it is one reason UA keeps its high value folks happy.
Oct 14, 2018, 8:29 am
#11
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,659
I still think United Mileage Plus program is a factor, since EQD and credit to million miler status needs to be on UA. USA travelers that are tied into MP - have no choice to preserve status. Those who are buying J and granted Global Services status are going to continue to fly UA J.
Oct 14, 2018, 8:48 am
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,975
I think it is a combination of corporate contracts, route network, MileagePlus (not the program itself is necessarily better but it ties you to UA 
) and Star Alliance.
Product-wise, with real Polaris, I think they just need to make sure there is consistent good service and better food to actually be above most of the competition. Unfortunately, if they cared about these things, they would have done it already.
) and Star Alliance.Product-wise, with real Polaris, I think they just need to make sure there is consistent good service and better food to actually be above most of the competition. Unfortunately, if they cared about these things, they would have done it already.
Oct 14, 2018, 9:00 am
#14
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,926
United offers wonderful discounts on its corporate travel agreements. That is why they can operate as the greyhound of the skies. My employer pushes its US based employees to fly United. I pay for my own TPACs and it is an anyone but United. I note that Delta the elegant lady of the skies has maintained competitive pricing for east coast originating TPACs, and I pick Delta over United whenever I can, so I am biased.
I also find that US nationals prefer US flag carriers.I see it in the premium cabin reflected in the pax mix. In talking with colleagues, when I ask them why they didn't use superior airlines like EVA or ANA or JAL, I get a blank look or some cringe worthy responses. If it was just pricing, they would be flying on the awful carriers like Air China and China Eastern, which can often be less expensive than United. (And yes, I too would fly United ex USA rather than those carriers.)
I also find that US nationals prefer US flag carriers.I see it in the premium cabin reflected in the pax mix. In talking with colleagues, when I ask them why they didn't use superior airlines like EVA or ANA or JAL, I get a blank look or some cringe worthy responses. If it was just pricing, they would be flying on the awful carriers like Air China and China Eastern, which can often be less expensive than United. (And yes, I too would fly United ex USA rather than those carriers.)
Oct 14, 2018, 10:11 am
#15
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CHS
Programs: UA GS, Bonvoy Amabassador, Hertz PC
Posts: 2,589
I think you would find quite a few of us prefer EVA over United. Problem is you can't buy their tickets on United.com except award tix.
ANA is also very nice, but you have to be careful, so of the connections from Japan are on older angle flat or barca lounge planes (I haven't flown them in a while, so they have been phased out)
I fly UA for the miles accumulation for Vacation, No one else has a network like Star Alliance and I can live with UA for business so I can vacation easier with my family.
ANA is also very nice, but you have to be careful, so of the connections from Japan are on older angle flat or barca lounge planes (I haven't flown them in a while, so they have been phased out)
I fly UA for the miles accumulation for Vacation, No one else has a network like Star Alliance and I can live with UA for business so I can vacation easier with my family.