Dog dies on IAH-LGA after FA supposedly insisted pax store dog overhead
Mar 15, 2018, 2:21 pm
#436
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Mar 15, 2018, 2:26 pm
#437
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From what I have read, the owner of the dog can't speak English and the family all speak accented English. If they 'pleaded' with the FA in Spanish or very accented English, I can see how a FA might not understand it. I often struggle understanding the FAs myself, even if they speak a language I'm fluent in, but accents can make things extremely tricky as there's often a lot of background noise in the cabin.
Mar 15, 2018, 2:30 pm
#438
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OK. A very good point about percentages. But look at 2017 numbers. 18 dead pets on UA vs 6 on All other airlines Together. And all these other airlines Together are much bigger with more flights than UA. Percentages were not reported in Fox News where I got the numbers, but the numbers are Not good for UA.
Mar 15, 2018, 2:33 pm
#439
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I wasn't completely surprised by FA's decision to put the dog in the overhead bin because a FA on one of my past flights also had the same idea. It was an AA flight from LAX to HNL few years ago.
When they were about to close the door, FA went around the cabin to swap seats with the guy seated at 1C. He was traveling with his dog and due to the fact it being bulkhead seat, he could not keep the dog carrier on the floor. Nobody wanted to swap. It was right before Christmas and majority of the cabin was filled by two families, each with kids. They all wanted to sit together and did not want to separate. And I and my travel buddy were 1D/F so no help at all.
After unsuccessful tries of getting a new seat for 1C, FA then told the guy he would have to put it in the overhead bin. Guy of course refused, and got upset. She kept insisting that is what he could only do. The only difference from this unfortunate UA incident is that FA also mentioned how he can bring it down after take off. Still, I could not believe my ears when I heard FA to use the overhead bin. I would've been so offended if she was telling me to do so for my own dog. She was acting as it was perfectly fine.
It was very obvious 1C would never comply to it though, so the lady behind me switched with him to end the drama.
When they were about to close the door, FA went around the cabin to swap seats with the guy seated at 1C. He was traveling with his dog and due to the fact it being bulkhead seat, he could not keep the dog carrier on the floor. Nobody wanted to swap. It was right before Christmas and majority of the cabin was filled by two families, each with kids. They all wanted to sit together and did not want to separate. And I and my travel buddy were 1D/F so no help at all.
After unsuccessful tries of getting a new seat for 1C, FA then told the guy he would have to put it in the overhead bin. Guy of course refused, and got upset. She kept insisting that is what he could only do. The only difference from this unfortunate UA incident is that FA also mentioned how he can bring it down after take off. Still, I could not believe my ears when I heard FA to use the overhead bin. I would've been so offended if she was telling me to do so for my own dog. She was acting as it was perfectly fine.
It was very obvious 1C would never comply to it though, so the lady behind me switched with him to end the drama.
As for whether pilots almost always back FAs, that seems to be the case from what I've read here on FT. But more to the point, it's confirmed in a useful article (written the aftermath of this tragedy), in which a former FA offers general advice on how to handle disagreements with FAs. First the quote:
Don’t ask to speak to the pilot, because pilots are trained to prioritize cockpit duties and usually defer to their in-flight crew’s judgement when a cabin issue is reported. As one pilot explained to me, not backing them up “would cause massive issues for the lines of communication among the crew and diminishes the already fragile authority flight attendants have over passengers.”
And the article itself:
https://slate.com/business/2018/03/w...rhead-bin.html
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 15, 2018 at 4:11 pm Reason: repaired quote
Mar 15, 2018, 2:38 pm
#440
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Mar 15, 2018, 3:32 pm
#441
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It does not matter if the passenger speaks with accent. My mother speaks very limited English. Yet if she was told to put her dog in the overhead, she would fight her way. Even if the passenger did not know the word "dog," she could've simply show what was inside the bag. I really doubt FA wasn't aware of the fact it was a dog. I don't think it was completely FA's fault as the passenger should've refused no matter what. But such request should never be made in the first place. I had some FAs who insisted putting away my shopping bag in the closet instead of overhead simply because they saw I picked up an Hermes bag while traveling. If some think overhead bin isn't safe for an expensive item made with skin of a dead animal, how can it be a suitable spot for a live dog?
Mar 15, 2018, 4:02 pm
#442
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Both are perfectly fathomable. It's not standard knowledge of what the consequences are of being put in an overhead compartment, especially for a 10 month old puppy...
Similarly, I would argue that anybody sitting in an exit row seat should be quizzed on operation of the exit door, while blindfolded. I would guess that almost everyone who hasn't had formal egress training will fail this. Is it unfathomable that in an emergency, there may be smoke and you can't see anything anyway? Why isn't this common sense to both FAs and passengers? As common sense as it is not to put a dog in the overhead compartment so is it common sense to conduct the blindfold operational quiz to every single person in an exit row. And the 40 lb lifting exercise. If you fail to go through the proper motions while blindfolded, out of the exit row you go. It ticks me off that exit row passengers so commonly say "yea, I know how to operate this..." without even reviewing which aircraft they're in. But it's not common situational knowledge is it?
Mar 15, 2018, 4:44 pm
#443
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Out of 138k pets 3 deaths isn't bad.
So pet owners have no responsibility the blame is on everyone else?
Accent is irrelevant, maybe this pet should have never been on the plane because it's the same type of pet banned by other airlines for its short nose breathing problems. A lot of them die on long distance transports because they can't breath in tight places or if they get too anxious or excited.
So pet owners have no responsibility the blame is on everyone else?
It does not matter if the passenger speaks with accent. My mother speaks very limited English. Yet if she was told to put her dog in the overhead, she would fight her way. Even if the passenger did not know the word "dog," she could've simply show what was inside the bag. I really doubt FA wasn't aware of the fact it was a dog. I don't think it was completely FA's fault as the passenger should've refused no matter what. But such request should never be made in the first place. I had some FAs who insisted putting away my shopping bag in the closet instead of overhead simply because they saw I picked up an Hermes bag while traveling. If some think overhead bin isn't safe for an expensive item made with skin of a dead animal, how can it be a suitable spot for a live dog?
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 15, 2018 at 4:48 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Mar 15, 2018, 4:55 pm
#444
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Again, you can believe the flight attendant was a Dog Killing Monster -- and MANY people who hate flight attendants and airlines WANT to believe this -- but there is a much simpler and more likely explanation that the flight attendant did not hear this response. Conspiracy theories obviously abound. Like I'm sure you think the reports that the flight attendant is now "devastated" are just a sham.
Mar 15, 2018, 5:03 pm
#445
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I do believe this is the most likely explanation. "I don't have time for this. Just put it in the overhead like I told you to do."
Mar 15, 2018, 6:22 pm
#446
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Look, there are lots of great people at UA, and I have had wonderful crew, and at times good service though the years. But the entire operation at this point is anti-passanger and very toxic. This is unfortunately what you get as a result of that type of culture.
Mar 15, 2018, 7:02 pm
#447
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Good question. To be a devil's advocate...
Both are perfectly fathomable. It's not standard knowledge of what the consequences are of being put in an overhead compartment, especially for a 10 month old puppy...
Similarly, I would argue that anybody sitting in an exit row seat should be quizzed on operation of the exit door, while blindfolded. I would guess that almost everyone who hasn't had formal egress training will fail this. Is it unfathomable that in an emergency, there may be smoke and you can't see anything anyway? Why isn't this common sense to both FAs and passengers? As common sense as it is not to put a dog in the overhead compartment so is it common sense to conduct the blindfold operational quiz to every single person in an exit row. And the 40 lb lifting exercise. If you fail to go through the proper motions while blindfolded, out of the exit row you go. It ticks me off that exit row passengers so commonly say "yea, I know how to operate this..." without even reviewing which aircraft they're in. But it's not common situational knowledge is it?
Both are perfectly fathomable. It's not standard knowledge of what the consequences are of being put in an overhead compartment, especially for a 10 month old puppy...
Similarly, I would argue that anybody sitting in an exit row seat should be quizzed on operation of the exit door, while blindfolded. I would guess that almost everyone who hasn't had formal egress training will fail this. Is it unfathomable that in an emergency, there may be smoke and you can't see anything anyway? Why isn't this common sense to both FAs and passengers? As common sense as it is not to put a dog in the overhead compartment so is it common sense to conduct the blindfold operational quiz to every single person in an exit row. And the 40 lb lifting exercise. If you fail to go through the proper motions while blindfolded, out of the exit row you go. It ticks me off that exit row passengers so commonly say "yea, I know how to operate this..." without even reviewing which aircraft they're in. But it's not common situational knowledge is it?
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28040354-post68.html
As an aside, the best training I ever got in my life was in the Navy at firefighting school. It was extremely unpleasant, and I can still remember the scorching heat singing my beard and eyebrows, and blowing black snot for a day or two, but years after I left the Navy, I was able to successfully put out an arson fire at an industrial site by myself with only 4 fire extinguishers. Had I waited for the fire department, as instructed when I called it in, the whole place would've been engulfed by the time they got there.
Last edited by zombietooth; Mar 15, 2018 at 7:46 pm
Mar 15, 2018, 8:10 pm
#448
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Eliminate all dogs/cats/peacocks, etc. from airplanes. Problem solved.
Mar 15, 2018, 8:28 pm
#449
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I won't accuse her of malice aforethought with regards to the dog, but I'm perfectly willing to believe she didn't care what happened to it as long her orders were obeyed. I suspect her only concern was an on-time take-off.
Mar 15, 2018, 8:54 pm
#450
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I flew UA twice in the last 24 hours and I chatted with an FA and a gate agent. Both told a very similar thing, which was that the internal story on this incident is that the bag didn't quite fit underneath and the passenger resisted squashing it further under the seat. So, the FA told her to put it up in the overhead. The mother resisted more, but with an accent and the FA didn't realize there was a dog in the bag. The entire interaction, they claim, was 15 seconds and nobody in the area commented or noticed.
Obviously I have no idea if that's true, but honestly it seems the most likely explanation. By that I mean, it's the easiest to believe actually happened. But, I wouldn't be totally shocked to find that the media version of this story is the true account. But then, look at how sloppy previous incident reporting has been.
Obviously I have no idea if that's true, but honestly it seems the most likely explanation. By that I mean, it's the easiest to believe actually happened. But, I wouldn't be totally shocked to find that the media version of this story is the true account. But then, look at how sloppy previous incident reporting has been.