GadgetFreak

JK-SFO

More than 10 years ago, I was on a flight SFO to ORD, pmUA, on a 757-200, sitting in the second exit row (last row of E+). There was a group of 6-8 retired people traveling together, sitting about 2-3 rows behind me. One had a little dog in a carrier. It wouldn't fit under any of their seats. The FAs were trying to help them but ended up getting a GA to come on and explain that the choice was between either not taking the trip or taking the trip on a later flight that day (I think on an A320 that had wider seats). The one person with the dog left the plane to get rebooked. The others in the group stayed onboard. A standby took the seat of the dog owner. I overheard the FA tell them that this happened on the 757 regularly. The aircraft in this tragic situation is the 737-900, which has similarly narrow seats.

JK-SFO

apodo77

yowspotter

It's possible to be worried about something but then not act on your worries for a wide variety of reasons. Jibes with me just fine.

iahphx

I don't have a dog in this fight (bada bing), but because I'm a lifetime 1K, a retired trial lawyer and a self-described commercial aviation "expert," I'll offer my two cents.

First, weird stuff occasionally happens on airplanes. Almost 2 million people fly in the United States EVERY DAY. With social media, I'm actually surprised we don't hear even more bizarro stories. When we do get the oddball stories, sometimes the passenger is to blame, sometimes the crew, sometimes both. Personally, I greatly dislike the "I'll never fly xyz airline again" reactions to stories like this. Given the number of pax, and the tiny number of truly "troubling" incidents, something bad could (but is unlikely) to happen to any passenger on any airline. In this case, in the worse case scenario for UA, they have now killed one in-cabin dog in more than a decade. They are not evil monsters, even if -- as is possible -- one of their flight attendants screwed-up big time in this instance. So I suggest everyone cool it with the overblown "outrage."

Second, I know everyone hates airlines and social media is quick to jump to conclusions, but I think it's better to wait for more facts to come out. Yes, it's certainly possible (but statistically improbable) that a UA flight attendant knew there was a dog in a carrier, ordered the dog to be placed in an overhead compartment, and didn't think she should check on or move that animal for a 3 hour flight. Is that possible? Sure -- I mean, we get murders who cook their victims and then eat them. Anything is possible. Is it particularly likely -- and the most likely thing that actually happend? No way.

Even "uncaring" flight attendants -- and I've run into a few -- tend to be rule driven. I'm pretty sure that every flight attendant for a USA airline knows that animals don't go in the overhead bins. I've flown millions of miles: I've never seen an animal in the bins. Has anyone? And worse, has anyone ever seen a FLIGHT ATTENDANT order a pax to put an animal in the bins?

What is a FAR more likely scenario is that if the pax told the flight attendant she had a dog in the carry-on, the flight attendant didn't hear that and thought it was just a suitcase. Oh, yes, I know there are eyewitness reports that passengers heard the pax and the flight attendant "discuss" the matter but -- from my trial lawyer experience -- I know eyewitness accounts are often flawed. More likely, they heard the pax mention the dog, but only THOUGHT they heard a dog-specific response from the f/a. Again, this could be wrong, and the f/a could have known she was putting a dog in the bins, but statistically, this is improbable.

If the maximum weirdness actually happened, obviously the flight attendant should be disciplined (I'd personally fire her to set an example), and a memo will go out reminding fa's that animals never go in bins. A memo should also go out reminding fa's to make sure they LISTEN to what pax say, as that's obviously a much bigger real world problem. Boycott "evil" UA if you must, but screw-ups happen all the time and everywhere. I see nothing in the facts here to indicate particular malice on the part of United. I just see the sadness of a dead pet and lots of people jumping to ill-advised conclusions.

iahphx

If that's what ACTUALLY happened on that flight, then UA hired a Dog Killing Monster who should lose her job and be vilified by all decent human beings. But do you REALLY think that's what happened? I mean, it's possible, but the odds are probably almost a million to one. Almost nobody on this planet (and certainly in America) behaves that way. I would think a flight attendant who had that attitude wouldn't last a month.

yowspotter

Personally, I don't prescribe to the notion that this was done out of malice. I think it's more likely that you have an FA that is enforcing the "no bags at your feet/protruding into the aisle" rule without discretion and in the usual fashion of instructing someone to put the bag in the bin.

Could be FA incompetence, aloofness, insensitivity, etc. I don't think she set out purposely to harm the dog.

gold23

UA ABSOLUTELY needs to fire this FA. It seems almost certain that the passenger informed the FA that there was a dog in the carrier, and persisted for a bit in her argument to keep the carrier under the seat. While I personally believe its likely the FA was an uncaring dragon who was trying to close the doors and get the wheels up over anything else in her way, I guess it's possible that she didn't LISTEN to the passenger tell her it was a dog. I'm certain she heard it, but its POSSIBLE it didn't register.

Either way, she should be fired. No-brainer. If a FA is merely moving around the cabin instructing passengers to yield to her will without at least acknowledging their complaint, she's at best a horrendous front facing employee and at worst a terrible FA who is actually risking passenger and airline safety.

The most recent statement from UA came straight from legal counsel. Let's partially defend the FA, quietly admit a major mistake, and now start manipulating behind the scenes to "make it right" with the family. I'm sure the FA union is also heavily involved here.

If there are no consequences for these types of actions, what's to stop future incidents?

seanp7

I've flown millions of miles - and I've never seen a man (or woman) dragged off a plane. Have you?

Your lengthy post suggests to "wait for more facts" and then adds just as much speculation as anyone else posting in this thread. That's perplexing.

aztimm

Now there are some internal documents being leaked from United that some employees see the story as, "fishy."

Some United Airlines employees say dead-dog story sounds 'very fishy'
What a truly horrible culture.

iahphx

It's not perplexing. If you live in the real world, you know that life is a game of probabilities. When you make a purchase at a cash register, you know the common action by the cashier is to ring up your order and accept your payment. It is not to pull a gun out of her pocket and start shooting. Flight attendants are similarly predictable. They may sometimes be uncaring, but they rarely ignore all their rules and training and do things that are stupid and mean that no one has ever seen done before. So what's 100x more likely: a crazed dog-killing flight attendant or one who didn't hear what a passenger said? You tell me.

And shock-of-all-shocks, I see that United is now saying the incident happened just as I predicted: the flight attendant didn't hear the passenger say it was a dog.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/14/unit...as-in-bag.html

Of course, {one could} say UA is lying. And, again, that's possible. But try to remember we live in the real world and think about the odds.

GadgetFreak

seanp7

I can't answer that - because, as you just told us all, on social media we sometimes jump to conclusions and we should just wait for the facts.

The current facts I'm reacting to are: there's a dead dog that flew United, there's an alive dog that ended up in Japan, and that this is a PR nightmare for United. I'll still fly United this weekend.

GadgetFreak

hoobly

According to a DoT report posted on Reddit, United is responsible for 75% of all animal deaths on flights in 2017.
https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKn...ble_for_75_of/

If true, there's something horribly wrong with United's processes and training, beyond this one incident.