FlyfromDenver

From recent experience, be careful what you wish for - they promised you'd be there in two days and you get there two weeks later

geometry

true... but I get a free 1-month extension of my Prime Air membership, right? Prime Economy class

rmadisonwi

Not just putting more seats on planes, but flying smaller planes has really reduced airlines’ costs in the past few decades. Gone are the days of flying DC-10s on one-hour hops to medium-sized midwestern cities from a hub just to keep the plane in the air between west-coast or international banks. Now those short-hops are 737s or RJs, while the west coast flights are 737s and A320s.

geometry

I loved flying 747-200s in first class on British Airways and DC-10s in first class on Lufthansa on really short flights from Philadelphia(USA) to Montreal(Canada) back in the day. They are the short US-Canada legs of TPAC flights to LHR and FRA.

They even served a meal for such a short flight. Not to mention the fact that a first class ticket on a 3-class widebody was about the same as what I would have paid for an Amtrak or U.S. airline full coach ticket.

RandomBaritone

We were taking about overall costs, not CASM. As you well know CASM is a derived metric used by analysts to gauge an airline's efficiency. But as a matter of course adding seats can't possibly in and of itself reduce costs. What it does is increase revenue per flight.

Pedantic lecture over.

Great point. Smaller planes definitely reduce overall cost.

Now let's get back on topic!

phkc070408

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've only been in the J cabin of the 752 once and I immediately felt the same thing.

Remember the shift in the aisle between the 2 x 2 F cabin and the 2 x 3 Y cabin on the DC-9 and MD-80?

ContinentalFan

sbm12

Only if they sell the seats. If we want to get stupidly pedantic then adding seats doesn't change revenue at all. Selling them does.

Also, you're the one ho brought up costs per passenger, referencing meals and such.

Separating absolute costs from the cost to carry a passenger is a stupid way to look at airline expenses. It certainly doesn't address the reality of the changing economics of operating an airline over the past 50 years.

geometry

airlines seem to be too worried about selling a product to someone who *needs* to travel...

if I'm running an airline company, I will start to figure out how to sell seats to people who have no need to travel, but are willing to pay top dollars money for my product. (like how people are willing to spend almost double the money on smartphones or laptops just because the have Apple logos on them)

sbm12

That's because those are the people buying the tickets.

Good thing you're not in charge. Your airline would quickly find itself bankrupt.

ermintrude

Your point about reducing the J cabin to accommodate PE may well be reality and going under the radar. Obviously the vast majority of PE seating will be from E+.

cesco.g

Not sure I follow your outline. IIRC, LH never operated DC-10s in their pax fleet, nor do I remember flights from US/CAN to LHR/FRA routing via TPAC ..... ??? ....

LXFlyer

Lufthansa did have DC-10:
Last DC-10 Flight With Lufthansa - Airliners.net
Lufthansa Fleet of DC10 (History) | Airfleets aviation

There is a New York-Philadelphia flight op by Lufthansa mentioned in here, maybe that's what geometry was thinking of? That, or the YUL-PHL was a different year.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...ental-network/

geometry

This was in the early 1990s.

The LH flight operated PHL-YMX-FRA. (YMX, not YUL) It was on a DC-10. They served a small warm meal(on a tray) in business class after leaving PHL.

BA operated PHL-YMX-LHR using 747s. They served a nice semi-warm snack in first class on the short PHL-YMX leg.

I loved taking PHL-YMX and back on both airlines, since they had the right to sell tickets on these short hops. However, it was a real pain getting from YMX into downtown Montreal.

Sometimes I would talk BA PHL-YMX and then return on LH YMX-PHL. (or vice versa) Like I said, fares in first and business class on those short flights were extremely cheap back then.

Looks like I'm not the only one nostalgic about these YMX-PHL flights... someone even saved the tickets and posted them on the internet! Check out the LH business class ticket that he posted... only $135! See pic below: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8b/3f...b7a548ea73.jpg


(sorry, I know this is getting off-topic, but I was just responding to another reply)

dilanesp

If J cabins are full of people who paid a full fare that covers the incremental price per square foot of a J seat plus the cost of Polaris service, then this would be a concern.

If J has a lot of FF'ers who upgraded into it, however, than I suspect airlines would rather sell that space in smaller chunks for cash, for the same reason they would rather sell a TOD upgrade rather than giving it to a FF'er.