Dec 29, 2017, 7:11 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Please Read
It is the desire of the FT UA Moderation Team to keep this thread open, as there is still much to be learned. While realizing this incident has some elements that have led to some very active discussion; such as the Congresswoman is local to a major UA hub and familiar to many UA flyers, FT has certain rules for discussion. This forum is focused on travel with UA and there are better places for other types of discussion.
After some discussion among the FT UA Moderators, we wish to clarify what is appropriate and what is not.
Not appropriate and better elsewhere
And all the standard FT rules apply including not commenting on other posters and not posting unnecessarily inflammatory, inciting or provocative comments.
Generally, if you are not discussing the incident, good chance you may be Off Topic.
WineCountryUA
on behalf of the UA FT Moderation Team
It is the desire of the FT UA Moderation Team to keep this thread open, as there is still much to be learned. While realizing this incident has some elements that have led to some very active discussion; such as the Congresswoman is local to a major UA hub and familiar to many UA flyers, FT has certain rules for discussion. This forum is focused on travel with UA and there are better places for other types of discussion.
After some discussion among the FT UA Moderators, we wish to clarify what is appropriate and what is not.
Discussion of the actual incident and how it might have happened
Discussion of how UA has handled the event
Discussion if the congresswoman or others forced this to happen
Discussion of UA granting unearned GS status
Discussion of how UA has handled the event
Discussion if the congresswoman or others forced this to happen
Discussion of UA granting unearned GS status
Not appropriate and better elsewhere
Overly political or racial comments about the congresswoman (or anyone else)
General comments about politicians, government officials unrelated to the actual incident
General ethics discussion concerning corporate/government officials accepting complimentary status
General comments about politicians, government officials unrelated to the actual incident
General ethics discussion concerning corporate/government officials accepting complimentary status
And all the standard FT rules apply including not commenting on other posters and not posting unnecessarily inflammatory, inciting or provocative comments.
Generally, if you are not discussing the incident, good chance you may be Off Topic.
WineCountryUA
on behalf of the UA FT Moderation Team
Pax accuses UA of giving her F seat to US Rep
Dec 29, 2017, 7:01 pm
#346
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SJL is getting obliterated in the media and social media. UA would crush her like a grape in a public battle over free upgrades. If anyone in a position of authority at UA really believes they need to treat SJL like a queen, then that explains a lot of failures at UA in recent years.
Dec 29, 2017, 7:08 pm
#347
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Please Read
It is the desire of the FT UA Moderation Team to keep this thread open, as there is still much to be learned. While realizing this incident has some elements that have led to some very active discussion; such as the Congresswoman is local to a major UA hub and familiar to many UA flyers, FT has certain rules for discussion. This forum is focused on travel with UA and there are better places for other types of discussion.
After some discussion among the FT UA Moderators, we wish to clarify what is appropriate and what is not.
Not appropriate and better elsewhere
And all the standard FT rules apply including not commenting on other posters and not posting unnecessarily inflammatory, inciting or provocative comments.
Generally, if you are not discussing the incident, good chance you may be Off Topic.
WineCountryUA
on behalf of the UA FT Moderation Team
It is the desire of the FT UA Moderation Team to keep this thread open, as there is still much to be learned. While realizing this incident has some elements that have led to some very active discussion; such as the Congresswoman is local to a major UA hub and familiar to many UA flyers, FT has certain rules for discussion. This forum is focused on travel with UA and there are better places for other types of discussion.
After some discussion among the FT UA Moderators, we wish to clarify what is appropriate and what is not.
Discussion of the actual incident and how it might have happened
Discussion of how UA has handled the event
Discussion if the congresswoman or others forced this to happen
Discussion of UA granting unearned GS status
Discussion of how UA has handled the event
Discussion if the congresswoman or others forced this to happen
Discussion of UA granting unearned GS status
Not appropriate and better elsewhere
Overly political or racial comments about the congresswoman (or anyone else)
General comments about politicians, government officials unrelated to the actual incident
General ethics discussion concerning corporate/government officials accepting complimentary status
General comments about politicians, government officials unrelated to the actual incident
General ethics discussion concerning corporate/government officials accepting complimentary status
And all the standard FT rules apply including not commenting on other posters and not posting unnecessarily inflammatory, inciting or provocative comments.
Generally, if you are not discussing the incident, good chance you may be Off Topic.
WineCountryUA
on behalf of the UA FT Moderation Team
Dec 29, 2017, 7:09 pm
#348
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,442
SJL is getting obliterated in the media and social media. UA would crush her like a grape in a public battle over free upgrades. If anyone in a position of authority at UA really believes they need to treat SJL like a queen, then that explains a lot of failures at UA in recent years.
Dec 29, 2017, 7:36 pm
#349
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
I actually did a same-day change on the app a few hours ago - should have through to take screenshots.
After selecting to view other flights, it's 2 clicks. One to select the flight you want to change to from the list (at which point it shows you the full details), and then one more to confirm the change.
I wouldn't say it's easy to accidentally do it, but for someone that wasn't used to using the app I certainly wouldn't consider it impossible to accidentally do it - especially if you were expecting it to take you to a payment screen at some stage like I'm guessing it would for a non-platinum or higher passenger, but which likely would not have occurred given the passengers original flight was delayed.
After selecting to view other flights, it's 2 clicks. One to select the flight you want to change to from the list (at which point it shows you the full details), and then one more to confirm the change.
I wouldn't say it's easy to accidentally do it, but for someone that wasn't used to using the app I certainly wouldn't consider it impossible to accidentally do it - especially if you were expecting it to take you to a payment screen at some stage like I'm guessing it would for a non-platinum or higher passenger, but which likely would not have occurred given the passengers original flight was delayed.
'"After thoroughly examining our electronic records, we found that upon receiving a notification that Flight 788 was delayed due to weather, the customer appears to have canceled her flight from Houston to Washington, D.C. within the United mobile app," United said in a statement.'
https://www.chron.com/news/politics/...p-12452258.php
"Simon was told by a gate attendant that her ticket was not in the system. Simon said the gate agent not only could not find her seat, but also could not find her ticket or name."The gate agent called over a second United agent who informed that I had no seat, not just the first class seat I had purchased, but no seat, period," Simon wrote. "I didn't even have a reservation any more."Simon was first told she may have cancelled her own reservation, before being told that united.com had changed her reservation about an hour earlier and that another passenger had been upgraded to her seat."
United Passenger Who Was Kicked Off Plane Unhappy With Airline Apology
The passengers reservation was initially "gone" and could not be found, then she is told that it had been changed an hour before. These two statements are contradictory. If the passenger had been told "I'm sorry, I show you on flight #XXX, it appears you changed your reservation" then I would believe UA. But that is not UA's story, nor is it consistent with what the passenger was told at the time.
Hopefully the passenger involved files a complaint. And just to point out, this is not an issue just with Lee, my guess is all airlines treat congress-people better than the general public, which is part of why congressional efforts to reign in the airlines (see Blumenthal's efforts) have not gone further.This said, I would not necessarily expect Sheila Jackson Lee to have demanded GS, and given that she flies a lot, and the qualification rules are not published, and we only know in general by reports on FT, she may legitimately believe she earned it, when UA gave it to her.
UA clearly decided the "enemy" was the passenger, but has now - with saner heads in the loop - gone to ground. Taking this particular congress-person out of the mix, UA gives certain GS special designations, and UA will bump people from seats for them, which is what appears to have happened here. UA clearly does not want to discuss that, let alone after the "chairman's flight" cop to giving special treatment to elected officials...
Dec 29, 2017, 7:38 pm
#350
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She threw in her lot with UA — who is also getting just as much negative press, if not more. You’re vastly underestimating UA’s negative reputation among people who, for the most part, don’t actually fly them. UA could delay a flight thirty seconds in order to accommodate a team of heart surgeons racing to do a pro bono transplant for a three-year-old, and all you’d see would be a story about somebody who complained because UA didn’t provide free drinks for the plane as a recompense for the inconvenience.
Dec 29, 2017, 7:47 pm
#351
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
But that's the thing: UA has a negative reputation because it keeps making amateurish mistakes in the p.r. wars. How better to win back the public than by telling an over-entitled politician to get lost when she complains about not getting free upgrades? It's hard to imagine an easier p.r. play for a big company than that.
If UA were to attack her, I would expect her to then - to protect herself - go after UA for who else had GS status, and say UA was picking on her because she was [fill in the blank]. UA would be defaming her, and she would have every interest in defending herself.... A story line of "United gives free stuff to all of these other congress people, but went after me" is the worst possible story line for UA. @:-)
Dec 29, 2017, 8:00 pm
#353
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That would be the worst possible response. UA gives special status to multiple congress-people, and likely other government officials. I seriously doubt that Jackson engaged in a hissy fit, rather she is GS (gifted or otherwise) with the special GS designation for VIPs, and UA cleared out a seat for her.
If UA were to attack her, I would expect her to then - to protect herself - go after UA for who else had GS status, and say UA was picking on her because she was [fill in the blank]. UA would be defaming her, and she would have every interest in defending herself.... A story line of "United gives free stuff to all of these other congress people, but went after me" is the worst possible story line for UA. @:-)
If UA were to attack her, I would expect her to then - to protect herself - go after UA for who else had GS status, and say UA was picking on her because she was [fill in the blank]. UA would be defaming her, and she would have every interest in defending herself.... A story line of "United gives free stuff to all of these other congress people, but went after me" is the worst possible story line for UA. @:-)
Dec 29, 2017, 8:00 pm
#354
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,442
But that's the thing: UA has a negative reputation because it keeps making amateurish mistakes in the p.r. wars. How better to win back the public than by telling an over-entitled politician to get lost when she complains about not getting free upgrades? It's hard to imagine an easier p.r. play for a big company than that.
If UA were to attack her, I would expect her to then - to protect herself - go after UA for who else had GS status, and say UA was picking on her because she was [fill in the blank]. UA would be defaming her, and she would have every interest in defending herself.... A story line of "United gives free stuff to all of these other congress people, but went after me" is the worst possible story line for UA. @:-)
I’m not familiar with this particular member of Congress — I’d never heard of her until this thread — but it’s hard for me to believe that you could spend 20 years in the House without being owed a few favors along the way. UA may well be afraid of behind-the-scenes retribution that would be even costlier than the PR hit.
Guilty as charged. But it doesn’t seem like that big of an exaggeration. Alaska Airlines is currently being sued for killing a woman. The FlyerTalk thread has 17 comments, and I’ve seen exactly one national story about it — and if there were any about the original incident, I missed them entirely. (TL;DR: Wheelchair contractors left her alone at PDX; she decided to get herself to her connecting gate, confused an escalator for an elevator, and fell down it. Tragically, she died three months later as a result of injuries suffered during the fall). This thread has attracted hundreds of responses.
Dec 29, 2017, 8:16 pm
#355
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Dec 29, 2017, 8:20 pm
#356
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Guilty as charged. But it doesn’t seem like that big of an exaggeration. Alaska Airlines is currently being sued for killing a woman. The FlyerTalk thread has 17 comments, and I’ve seen exactly one national story about it — and if there were any about the original incident, I missed them entirely. (TL;DR: Wheelchair contractors left her alone at PDX; she decided to get herself to her connecting gate, confused an escalator for an elevator, and fell down it. Tragically, she died three months later as a result of injuries suffered during the fall). This thread has attracted hundreds of responses."Executive Decision. A group of terrorists hatch a plot to hijack an airline. But the flight is overbooked. When they refuse to leave their carefully chosen seats, two of their number are beaten to a pulp by United flight attendants. The other terrorists say on board but are too cowed to do anything."
United management burned their bridges with a series of service quality cuts starting in 2012 all backed up with a set of lies: "changes you will like"
Any company with an NPS of 10 (vs. say SWA at 62, and B6 at 68 or DL at 38) has put a target on its back. see https://customergauge.com/blog/net-p...-australia-cba ; https://customergauge.com/blog/2017-...dustry-so-far/
p.s. UA has reported NPS for 2017 of -8 (https://customer.guru/net-promoter-s...ental-holdings ) but its "estimate" but I think probably better reflects the post-Dao NPS.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 30, 2017 at 3:29 pm Reason: Removed inflammatory comment; Using symbols, spaces or other methods to mask vulgarities is not allowed.
Dec 29, 2017, 8:43 pm
#357
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,442
There is a segment of the population who is predisposed to believe that UA is a racist company run by racist employees who will regularly mistreat customers based upon their skin color. You’re expecting an awful lot from both the news media and the public when you think they will be able to resist the immediate urge to jump to the same conclusion if the congresswoman were to make the same claim — and considering that she immediately called the accuser racist, I have no reason to doubt that she would claim the same thing about UA.
I’ll be the first to admit that UA hasn’t helped itself with many of its PR responses so far this year, but, in this case, they’re between a rock and a hard place if a special favor was requested. Grant it, and you risk a mess; deny it, and you risk a mess. The only scenario where UA comes out looking plausibly OK if if their defense has been accurate from the start and they can somehow prove it — but their reputation is bad enough at this point that few will believe them anyway. (~350 posts into this thread and I’ve yet to see a single shred of evidence that UA has been lying — not that I’m truly sure what form that evidence would take — but the preponderance of public opinion is clearly against them).
Dec 29, 2017, 8:47 pm
#358
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"Everyone hates United Airlines ... which is why its Revenue Passenger Miles is up 4.6 percent year over year."
Dec 29, 2017, 8:49 pm
#359
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Posts: 21,442
Dec 29, 2017, 8:57 pm
#360
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I guess I've lost track of what you're arguing, then. United's RPM is up almost 5 percent year over year despite having an all-time horrendous year in terms of public relations. So what exactly does UA have to fear vis-a-vis SJL?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.