Captain Schmidt

Mrs S and were recently using up some UA miles on a F award from MCO to ORD when we got caught up in an IRROPS situation due to a huge storm in the Chicago area. Because of this our flight got cancelled (after we were checked-in at MCO) and we were bumped to the next flight, but in Economy. It would seem that UA had pretty much already cleared the upgrade list on the next flight so there were no seats in F. I wasn't happy but ultimately understood. We then had a 6 hour delay on the new flight due to the on-going weather issue up north. By the time we got to the gate for our flight, the last (i.e. next) flight to ORD had actually departed ahead of us, seemingly taking with it a decent number of pax booked on our flight. The odd thing for me was that at this point F seating became available, but there appeared to be no mechanism for reinstating our F seats, rather the next people on the upgrade list would have been cleared. As it is, I explained at the gate and we managed to get our F seats before they cleared the upgrade list so all's well that ends well, but I'm struggling to understand how UA works this. Does anyone here know if how we were (not) dealt with is SOP for UA, or if we just got lucky? If it is SOP, I'd be interesting in understanding why, i.e. why is an F-ticket not an F ticket?

findark

This is SOP for United. It's all about what is the least work for the agent rebooking you. They assume (albeit often correctly) that you want to go home in the next available seat, in any cabin. It is fastest to apply your coupon to the new flight, using a positive space booking code. This does not create a waitlist for your original class of service or otherwise put you on the upgrade list unless you would otherwise be (which would be additional keystrokes). Anything more would require your proactive intervention (which you did).

Even worse, UA often claims you are due no compensation* for the downgrade, because it was "voluntary".

*they will still give you the fare difference, by law, but they won't give you anything extra under GG OVS DOWNGRADE

Captain Schmidt

OK, thanks. The check-in agent did say we would have got the difference in miles back and I had assumed they would have had an out on any potential additional downgrade costs due to the weather IRROPS being beyond their control (understandably I guess). Even so, the whole having to kind of fight to get our ticketed seats back struck me as odd. Domestic F has obviously become a more devalued product in recent years, but I would have thought they should protect the integrity of a ticket issued in F (albeit one paid for with miles).

findark

I completely agree, but paid F IRROPS is definitely a weakness with UA (and I think with other carriers as well). The situations for protecting pax in case of IRROPS and IDB are focused on flying versus not flying, and not well structured for a pax who is of the opinion "I fly F, or not at all".

For future note, you can also proactively insist to be rebooked only in F (which may cause you to be delayed more), and/or insist that the rebooking agent put you on the waitlist and upgrade standby list. Agents are universally bad at discussing these options (or following through, if a bad agent), and yes it's kind of sad.

Hipplewm

Had the same thing happen in SFO earlier, albiet not an award ticket, but they should be treated the same.

Called 1K line and they manually added me to wait list as some PR code that meant "Displaced passenger" which means I paid for F, but no F is available, so you jump ahead of everyone on the upgrade list and you should get processed normally at the gate.

wxguy

Same just happened to me last night, though on a paid international biz ticket. I told the agent at the flight I wanted to get on that I was displaced by a mechanical, and wanted to both stand-by for Y and be put on the upgrade list. As a GS I popped to the top of both lists. But even a few 1Ks in the same situation as me were accommodated before upgraders. An award ticket should be handled the same way. You have to be proactive and explain what you want to the agent.

cfischer

This is SOP. You can get priority for any 'available' F seat during iropos on an F ticket. The GA should be able to process this. You can also waitlist on the priority waitlist for displaced premium pax which goes ahead of any complimentary or certificate upgrades. The waitlist process is not well understood by most GAs though.

Catbert10

This is the fundamental issue that you must address in IRROPS. If you aren't proactive, the rebooking agent will almost always take the path of least work, which rarely works out best for you. First, try to do some homework and suggest alternate routings that keep you in F. Second, make sure you are recorded as displaced F, so that you go to the top of the upgrade lists. Third, monitor F availability and refer agents to your displaced status to force reinstatement.

Once you 'voluntarily' accept a downgrade, you're hosed.

fastair

There is no way to know, as an agent working the new flight what you originally paid for, short of pulling up every reservation, and looking at every ticket. The advice of discussiong it with the gate agent working the flight is sound. Yesterday I had 1 person explain his situation to me, I verified his story via his PNR history and added him to the uograde list accordingly. Another couple had the same issue, they choose not to as they were happy with the seats they had. One person in F misconnected, and despite an upgrade list of 20+ people, the non statused paid F passenger was upgraded at departure ahead of all the CPU passengers. (It's been a tough week at ORD with storm after storm rolling thru.)

Often1

UA's auto-rebooking system presumes that people value time over class of service. If you are booked into F, you may absolutely tell the rebooking agent that you want to be rebooked into the next available F seat. You may also be waitlisted for intervening flights.

Pax on the waitlist will clear ahead of UG's.

If you accept the Y seat, that is what you get. It is not a downgrade and you are entitled to a refund of the fare difference. Back in the day UA treated these the same as DG's and paid its voluntary customer service gesture in funny money as well. But, no longer --- although you may try to file a request afterwards.

uanj

Fastair, what can we say to an agent to get the equivalent of UA's FFCC? I almost always travel revenue business or domestic first but I find it is usually a struggle to get rebooked with the Priority 1 for domestic first when I misconnect.

Not meaning to disagree with this, but just sharing what I heard from agent in CLE. The upgrade system is based on old CO Shares coding which assumed when rebooking that no one ever bought domestic first, so there was no way in the system to get on a domestic first waitlist. The work around that was added was making rebooked FC the highest priority "upgrade" but it required, and still requires, an additional manual step when rebooking. The system will not do it based on your fare basis. Many agents don't know this or steer clear of it because they have been told they could get in trouble if they use it. FWIW....

jsloan

That's correct; there is no first class waitlist (domestic or international). There is a single waitlist -- if you clear it, you get onto the plane -- plus multiple waitlists for clearing passengers into the premium cabin(s). The one for a displaced domestic first class passenger is called PR-1. If you are on a paid first class ticket, and there is no inventory available in F, an agent should be able to list you on standby for the flight and add you to the PR-1 list. At that point, you should appear at or near the top of both standby lists. (I'm actually not sure if the get-onto-the-flight standby list will prioritize a non-status F passenger over a 1K Y passenger). So, if you ask to "standby for flight XXX and be added to the PR-1 list as a displaced first class passenger," that should be as clear an instruction as possible to the agent. (Whether or not they'll actually do it, I can't say).

However, there is absolutely a possibility that you will clear onto the flight in Y but F will be full and you'll be stranded at #1 on the PR-1 list. The only way to avoid this is to talk to the gate agent who's working the target flight, explain your situation, and ask the agent not to clear you from the waitlist unless you can get into first. Processing standby passengers is a manual task, so the agents do have this amount of discretion.

hoshattack

Also someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if you cleared with miles/cert in advance (before CPU windows) that seems to be equivalent to paid F. Talking to the UC agent at IAD I was able to get put at the top of the UG list after my flight from AMS was delayed and I missed my onward connection. Was definitely a little complicated for her since I had already been put on the waitlist under CPU priority, but well worth it getting an F seat for a 5 hour flight back home!