rickg523

And this is why I also believe this passenger was making a rational decision not to raise a stink before departure. Because under the prevailing incentive system, the passenger raising the issue is seen as the impediment to timely departure and the easiest solution is to off load the problem and get flying.
I maintain if she had insisted on a resolution that acknowledged her purchase (and the standby had simply sat quietly) she and her baby would have been the ones sent off.

Ber2dca

All of that is purely speculative. This forum increasingly reads like a tabloid news comments section and to be honest the headlines on the FT frontpage read like tabloid clickbait too.

spin88

Ah, the new approach. United does something wrong to a customer and the response is "fake news."

p.s. The DL/AA/VX/WN/AS forums are not filled with stories of the airline mistreating its customers. The fake news outbreak must be specific to United for some reason.

pilsn3r

That's a very likely scenario you describe. The ones who blame the passenger or insist that she should have done more are typically (not always) Platinum or higher flyers. They get catered to by the airlines much more than a non-status flyer, and its clear they do not take that into account when saying, "Well, she should have done this or that cause that's what I would have done and they would fix it for me (a high-status flyer)."

Kacee

I don't think that's the reason.

There are plenty of elites posting here whose comments are sane and reasonable.

fastair

So true. I get emails telling me I've gotten a small bonus every month or two, but whatever it is, it hasn't changed significantly in many many years. No more pressure on me now than before, no less. I guess if I was freshly hired I might think that delaying my flight to fix an error might get me in trouble, but I'd also think that not rectifying an error would get me in more trouble. I'd doubt very many people are motivated for individual specific actions based on a global bonus, that if was realized at its maximum for the entire year, would be slightly less than 1% of my base pay.

Lotta misinformation on on this thread, even by those whose knowledge on UA procedures I've been impressed with over the years I'm not in the mood currently to nitpick on those points, but some little gaps in posters knowledge has generated some way off base theories. It's the problem when you extrapolate an incorrect technicality into a global theory, the error becomes much bigger.

but this is FT, I come here for the entertainment and I wear my tinfoil hat when I'm behind the keyboard for a reason

minnyfly

You honestly think that crews will knowingly break FAA rules for a gain as minor as an ontime departure? That's must be exceedingly rare - I can't even think of one example off the top of my head.

Look, there's plenty of airline workers that don't do exactly as they should. but there's one line that just doesn't get crossed.


UA's operational improvements started well before Kirby. At least some initiatives actually started under Smisek, and Munoz gave it a takeoff boost. It doesn't appear that Kirby has brought any more push for OT than previous leaders did, and I haven't seen any evidence that it's stronger than those pushes at other airlines. I've been a victim of the OT push with DL's gate agents. If OT what the consumer wants, unfortunately there will be isolated consequences. However, you can bet that breaking FAA rules isn't one of those consequences that deemed acceptable.

I think that's too far-fetched to believe. That implies that this passenger had intimate knowledge of current airline operations. If so, that same person should have known that duplicate seat assignments aren't not unheard off, and when it does, the issue needs to be brought to the attention of the crew right away. When you do, the issue is rectified. You're not punished in America. When has someone been offloaded in this manner to make someone rationally fearful of it happening again?

NH_Clark

sad but true... the UA forum has become a lot like the Onion.

davidsc111

Who wants to hear from the individual in seat 24C? They may be able to shed some light on this... If it went down, even 90% of how it is described in her statements, I don't blame the mother at all.

My wife has traveled a ton with me... but by herself I can see her making the same internal decision. It would never happen to me (or most on here) because I would just say "no, I've got a paid seat go get the pilot". But I fly almost every week and and understand what I can and can't get away with.

The funny thing is...all United (anyone who interacted with this lady) had to do was ask "maam, what will it take to make this right". She probably would have said refund both my tickets or something...maybe even "give me $10k"...whatever. They've surely had $10k in bad press on this and the total figure including whatever they end up paying her will likely be 100 times that.

I have a friend who routinely tells his waiter/waitress to tip themselves whatever they think they are worth. He's never had anyone go over 30%. Most people when faced with the question of "what will it take to resolve this" respond reasonably (not always). My friend with the tip is a consultant that charges $1,500 an hour...he's still waiting on the smart waiter/waitress that tips themselves that amount. It's unlikely this school teacher would have said $1million. At that point she would have lost the moral high ground.

I agree with most that I don't see how the "scanner" caused the issue. I think the SB passenger was GS or something and they were trying to get him home. The $75 fee aside, I've not seen any confirmation that was charged or paid and who knows where she got that info...United could easily burn this lady if her story was false...they haven't which tells me they know the screwed up which means she'll get paid...and frankly she should. The only way you punish corp. is by taking their cash or imposing regulations. In this case cash will do and it has to be enough to change behavior.

blueman2

Finally, some good constructive ideas from the Chicago Tribune on how United can recover from this incident and others.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...707-story.html

GoPhils

this is sarcasm, right?

CEB

While I will add to the count, it remains amazing to me that there are 225 posts on this matter; and the most likely explanation is that some newshounds have decided over the past few months that the airlines are fare game on all fronts. While not defending what happened in any way shape or form, it seems that our society is now more interested in flaming about the occasional failures of people in their work, yes those are human beings on the other side of this equation as well and we all make mistakes whether it be behavioral or judgmental.

Airlines fly thousands of flights a day and millions of people each week. Was this a bad decision? Absolutely, and the passenger was as much to blame as United Airlines. United made an innocent mistake in the scanning process, they then boarded a standby pax, the lady in question (read her ORIGINAL account carefully) make a meek appeal after removing her child from the seat in question (which she had no obligation to do and according to her original account she was not instructed to do. As she stewed on the matter (and after she was already at her destination) she started to make a stink (rightly so, of course) but then the story seems to get continually embellished with extraneous additions, including her supposed fear of a bruising. There is absolutely no indication that this incident attracted any significant attention until well after she had arrived at her destination.

All things considered, she got a bad deal. But she clearly contributed to the issue by not speaking up and all the silly excuses in the world do not warrant a major blow up such as this thread has produced.

rufflesinc

Your friend the consultant does this little game because he can easily afford to tip 30%, 100%, or even 200% , excellent service or bad service, at three star michelin restaurants. I don't really see the whole point of this game because a lot of servers giving poor service aren't doing it to be mean or lazy but (like many employees) because that's what they think the service should be.

United, OTOH, knows what excellent service is (they compare themselves to US and intl peers) and what bad service is. They also know what their profit margins come from.

sinoflyer

It's your prerogative to view this incident from the surface, and conclude that it was an isolated mistake.

I have a few frontline UA agent friends, and I see the incident as symptom of an ingrained problem. That's my prerogative.

Kacee

Not just "recover" but "monetize." Truly a win-win.