UA Sends Passenger On 28 Hour Detour
May 4, 2017, 5:54 pm
#46
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At JFK T8, two gates 1-2 and 11-12, each have a common passageway but split later on (like a Y); the GA(s) scan in the terminal--there is usually a GA in the passageway directing pax to the correct passageway.
For one flight that I took pax were being directed to the WRONG gate--until I pointed out his error.
[In a "perfect" world, there should NEVER be flts departing in close proximity for 1-2 or 11-12...]
Re language issues, over 10 years ago I was connecting in the NEW DETROIT INTL Airport, I heard more announcements in Japanese than I've heard in Narita (Tokyo) airport.
For one flight that I took pax were being directed to the WRONG gate--until I pointed out his error.
[In a "perfect" world, there should NEVER be flts departing in close proximity for 1-2 or 11-12...]
Re language issues, over 10 years ago I was connecting in the NEW DETROIT INTL Airport, I heard more announcements in Japanese than I've heard in Narita (Tokyo) airport.
May 4, 2017, 5:59 pm
#47
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May 4, 2017, 6:15 pm
#48
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These are two separate issues. UA's systems shouldn't allow a passenger to board the wrong plane though it happens at all major airlines from time to time. That's something they need to discuss locally with their staff there and there ought to be some consequences for the involved staff.
But the passenger is still the person who made the mistake. A criminal can't blame police for not stopping him, even if the cops make mistakes in their pursuit of the criminal. The responsibility for the crime rests with the criminal. In this case, the passenger has to be aware of what signs and announcements say.
Gate changes occur for many operational reasons every day at every airport. They are not a rare occurrence at all. Most of us here have traveled to countries where we don't speak the language and had to figure things out. The responsibility of figuring it out is with you. The world - which includes United Airlines - doesn't owe you a whole lot.
But the passenger is still the person who made the mistake. A criminal can't blame police for not stopping him, even if the cops make mistakes in their pursuit of the criminal. The responsibility for the crime rests with the criminal. In this case, the passenger has to be aware of what signs and announcements say.
Gate changes occur for many operational reasons every day at every airport. They are not a rare occurrence at all. Most of us here have traveled to countries where we don't speak the language and had to figure things out. The responsibility of figuring it out is with you. The world - which includes United Airlines - doesn't owe you a whole lot.
May 4, 2017, 6:27 pm
#50
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I do like the way LH at FRA/MUC airports have implemented the automated system where the BP is scanned by the machine and the turnstyle/baffle gate opens to allow you through.
Properly set up, this will allow for efficient checking of the boarding pass while those with issues can be pulled to the side and a manual review can be made.
Properly set up, this will allow for efficient checking of the boarding pass while those with issues can be pulled to the side and a manual review can be made.
For that matter, do the turnstyles only let you through if you are in the right boarding group?!
May 4, 2017, 7:02 pm
#51
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Actually, UA has this turnstyle/baffle gate doors at some (all?) of their new gates in BOS! I assume that it would catch someone on the wrong flight, but haven't observed them closely enough to see anybody being caught.
For that matter, do the turnstyles only let you through if you are in the right boarding group?!
For that matter, do the turnstyles only let you through if you are in the right boarding group?!
All it takes is a couple of people to try and "jump the queue" to slow it down with the current way those gates are set up. They need to increase the length/distance between the scanner and the actual gate, and have a break along the side of one (or both) of the walls so that a BP that is denied/error can easily get out of the way by moving forward (with their carry on) instead of trying to back up into an already packed line behind them (sort of a shunt to allow for quick exit).
And have at least 3 of those gates operating, with one gate designated for priority access at all times, so elite/priority boarding pax don't have to be stuck behind the last group to get in.
Forget for a minute that a caring UA employee could have caught this so easily[/QUOTE]
Don't forget for a minute (or 10 seconds) the passenger is also responsible for looking at the boarding gate information.
UA is clearly at fault; but the passenger bears some responsibility too.
No one has the full story as to why the passenger just got up and went to the gate without verifying the flight. Maybe she was on the mobile talking to someone and didn't pay attention; maybe the gate agent was distracted and didn't hear or disregarded the error beep at the gate; maybe the flight attendant just looked for an empty seat to they can close the flight.
What matters is that UA agents and the system should have prevented this, and the passenger should have been more attentive.
Last edited by l etoile; May 4, 2017 at 10:48 pm Reason: Removed deleted quote
May 4, 2017, 7:04 pm
#52
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I think some time ago a (TSA?/FAA?) mandate was introduced and a positive pax/bag identification is now required. Bag should have been offloaded.
May 4, 2017, 7:22 pm
#53
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May 4, 2017, 7:40 pm
#54
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How does security play into it? It was a domestic flight. Any bags she had would have been offloaded from the CDG flight as she didn't board it.
According to the niece in the article, "She could have been a terrorist and killed people on that flight and they didn't know they didn't catch it", but of course if she was a terrorist she could have just as readily killed the people on the CDG flight, so...
Yes, UA screwed up here (as did the passenger, but UA should have caught it) - but there are ZERO security implications in this particular case. If it had been the reverse (accidentally flown to CDG rather than SFO) then there could have been immigration implications, but even then it'd be a stretch to call it a security issue.
According to the niece in the article, "She could have been a terrorist and killed people on that flight and they didn't know they didn't catch it", but of course if she was a terrorist she could have just as readily killed the people on the CDG flight, so...
Yes, UA screwed up here (as did the passenger, but UA should have caught it) - but there are ZERO security implications in this particular case. If it had been the reverse (accidentally flown to CDG rather than SFO) then there could have been immigration implications, but even then it'd be a stretch to call it a security issue.
Last edited by l etoile; May 4, 2017 at 10:08 pm Reason: Removed deleted quote
May 4, 2017, 8:16 pm
#56
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My SOP especially for early morning flights or situations when I'm tired/jet lagged is to verify the destination with the FA as I board the aircraft. Sometimes they almost laugh at me, but it could be pretty early to board the wrong flight when one isn't alert.
I agree, although it's increasingly rare for FAs on USA legacy carriers to look at boarding passes at the door, just when there's an apparent duplicate seat assignment. At that stage, some airline employee should look very carefully at all boarding passes. I've observed this when one of the passengers had indeed boarded the wrong flight.
This is less obvious to me. Often one cannot hear airport and airplane announcements. If I can't understand them as a native speaker of the American language, I wouldn't expect foreigners who aren't comfortable with English to understand either.
Moreover, the way CDG airport is pronounced by American versus French speakers is very different.
If someone is confident that he/she knows the gate assignment, he/she probably doesn't consider it necessary to verify this on one of the somewhat cluttered screens at the gate. Maybe this isn't best practice, but it's reality.
IMO this was a major job failure of the GA. I've observed GAs ignoring the warning beeps (including not noticing that some old senile frail guy who wasn't able to board unassisted had been assigned by the GA to an exit row). In fact, once when my boarding pass beeped, the GA just noted my seat number and said that she would board me on the podium computer terminal after departure rather than checking the problem closing the door.
Human-computer interaction fails again.
Human factors analysis would suggest that maybe it's better to avoid having humans in the loop when they're being asked to pay attention to boring repetitive tasks that occasionally required detailed attention.
The strange parts of the story are the following:
(1) Why does the scanner not set out an alarm for a wrong boarding pass? Or worse still, the scanner does trigger the alarm but the GA ignored it???
(2) The FA did look at the boarding pass when dealing with the seat conflict. How did s/he not recognize that this is a wrong boarding pass? The wrong destination shouldn't have escaped the eye of an FA!
I am very worried about this incident.
(1) Why does the scanner not set out an alarm for a wrong boarding pass? Or worse still, the scanner does trigger the alarm but the GA ignored it???
(2) The FA did look at the boarding pass when dealing with the seat conflict. How did s/he not recognize that this is a wrong boarding pass? The wrong destination shouldn't have escaped the eye of an FA!
I am very worried about this incident.
I mean.. even a non-English speaker should be able to look up at the gate display and tell the difference between "Paris" and "San Francisco". Pretty sure I could do that in any alphabet I'm even passingly familiar with (Latin, Cyrillic, Hangul). Obviously, the passenger was probably distracted for other reasons and UA shares responsibility, but yes I think that many people could have caught their own mistake.
Reminds me of this - amazing how easy it is to get onto the wrong flight.
Reminds me of this - amazing how easy it is to get onto the wrong flight.
Moreover, the way CDG airport is pronounced by American versus French speakers is very different.
If someone is confident that he/she knows the gate assignment, he/she probably doesn't consider it necessary to verify this on one of the somewhat cluttered screens at the gate. Maybe this isn't best practice, but it's reality.
The story of the FTer boarding the wrong flight made me wonder about the design of the boarding pass scanners, and in particular, the audio cues that they give.
In that thread, the poster stated that the scanner gave a beep for the wrong flight which sounded like the same beep as an exit row beep (presumably because the GA is supposed to verify that it's not a kid boarding with that seat). I'm sure when GAs are scanning 150+ boarding passes at a time, they can easily "zone out" (so to speak) and just hear the same beeps over and over again. If, in fact, the alert for the wrong flight is the same as the alert for the exit row, it's quite easy to see how a moment of inattention while performing a repetitive action a hundred times can lead to something like this. That would be a flaw in how the scanner system functions. (Ideally, the audio alerts would be different and distinct tones for each type of scan, maybe even a buzzer of sorts for "wrong flight" scans.) Yes, the gate agent should have been paying attention, but in a world of humans, it's easy to see how something like this could happen. You don't expect someone boarding the wrong flight, you do expect people to board with exit row seats, so the default assumption is that the audio alert is exit row or something similar, and by the time you even think something might be odd, several other passengers have boarded and the info is off the screen already.
In that thread, the poster stated that the scanner gave a beep for the wrong flight which sounded like the same beep as an exit row beep (presumably because the GA is supposed to verify that it's not a kid boarding with that seat). I'm sure when GAs are scanning 150+ boarding passes at a time, they can easily "zone out" (so to speak) and just hear the same beeps over and over again. If, in fact, the alert for the wrong flight is the same as the alert for the exit row, it's quite easy to see how a moment of inattention while performing a repetitive action a hundred times can lead to something like this. That would be a flaw in how the scanner system functions. (Ideally, the audio alerts would be different and distinct tones for each type of scan, maybe even a buzzer of sorts for "wrong flight" scans.) Yes, the gate agent should have been paying attention, but in a world of humans, it's easy to see how something like this could happen. You don't expect someone boarding the wrong flight, you do expect people to board with exit row seats, so the default assumption is that the audio alert is exit row or something similar, and by the time you even think something might be odd, several other passengers have boarded and the info is off the screen already.
It really seems like a serious UX issue that the boarding pass scanners used by gate agents provide almost exactly the same audio feedback for:
(1) This sequence number has already boarded (duplicate/wrong BP)
(2) Verify exit row OK
(3) This isn't the flight we're boarding (scanned your SYR-EWR boarding pass on your EWR-SFO flight)
(4) The passenger's seat has changed, please advise them of their new seat
It's just an angry beep. Lots of angry beeps. Easy to imagine that a GA could mishandle a beep.
That being said, it seems like the degree to which "I boarded the wrong flight and ended up going somewhere I wanted to!" ends up being the airline's fault seems to depend a little bit on how much extrinsic anger popular culture currently has for the airline.
(1) This sequence number has already boarded (duplicate/wrong BP)
(2) Verify exit row OK
(3) This isn't the flight we're boarding (scanned your SYR-EWR boarding pass on your EWR-SFO flight)
(4) The passenger's seat has changed, please advise them of their new seat
It's just an angry beep. Lots of angry beeps. Easy to imagine that a GA could mishandle a beep.
That being said, it seems like the degree to which "I boarded the wrong flight and ended up going somewhere I wanted to!" ends up being the airline's fault seems to depend a little bit on how much extrinsic anger popular culture currently has for the airline.
I do like the way LH at FRA/MUC airports have implemented the automated system where the BP is scanned by the machine and the turnstyle/baffle gate opens to allow you through.
Properly set up, this will allow for efficient checking of the boarding pass while those with issues can be pulled to the side and a manual review can be made.
Properly set up, this will allow for efficient checking of the boarding pass while those with issues can be pulled to the side and a manual review can be made.
Last edited by MSPeconomist; May 5, 2017 at 7:01 am Reason: Correcting autocorrect
May 4, 2017, 8:50 pm
#57
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Ua should have caught this...
countless flights on UA are "direct" so if i dont board at the gate that says san francisco i may not make it to, say, frankfurt...
i can see how this may not be very obvious to a tired and jetlagged visitor..
and thankfully in china for example they do make announcements in english even for flights that dont head to usa..
usa unfortunately is really one of the worst countries for a foreigh tourist..
countless flights on UA are "direct" so if i dont board at the gate that says san francisco i may not make it to, say, frankfurt...
i can see how this may not be very obvious to a tired and jetlagged visitor..
and thankfully in china for example they do make announcements in english even for flights that dont head to usa..
usa unfortunately is really one of the worst countries for a foreigh tourist..
Being the melting pot that we are, as one other poster put, what are we supposed to make announcements in a host languages? There is already far too much white noise in the airports as it is.......
May 4, 2017, 8:55 pm
#58
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Yes, UA should have caught this at the gate. But... the passenger should have never been at the wrong gate to begin with. There are monitors everywhere and countless announcements. I don't care what language one speaks, but the difference between "Paris" and "San Francisco" is quite substantial.
The lack of common sense and the need for constant hand holding people have nowadays is astounding.
The lack of common sense and the need for constant hand holding people have nowadays is astounding.
May 4, 2017, 9:39 pm
#59
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May 4, 2017, 9:57 pm
#60
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