CAPT Tee

Give the airline reason for charge one more fee is not the solution.

Oformula

I agree as well. To me, the idea of every passenger refusing to bite until the compensation is outlandish is about as likely as people refusing to work until the minimum wage >$100k. Sure, there's a possibility, but it ain't gonna happen. Everyone has their price.

kop84

DL already basically does a Dutch Auction at check in. You can select how much you're willing to take to go on a different flight if they need you.

Making it even better, is that DL basically gives everyone the highest compensation given out. So if DL needs 5 people, and you bid $200, but to get to that 5th person they had to give out $600, DL gives everyone $600.

You are basically pleasantly surprised to get bumped. I saw an article that UA has 17x more VDB than IDB. DL has 100x more VDB vs IDB! DL's basically got it already figured out. DL has the DB situation worked out before they start boarding most of the time. If it's over by 5, they've got 5 people lined up waiting to see if there are any no shows. If everyone shows up, the compensation is issued, and the tickets are rebooked. If there are 2 no shows, 3 of those lined up go on the plane, and the other two are taken care of.

DL's got it so figured out most people are disappointed they don't get to Volunteer!

UA copies everything else DL does, why can't they copy this?

ellenyc

Reportedly, a passenger on the flight had offered $1600, and the offer was refused by the agent. The VDB market had already been established in this case; UAL gambled it could save money by IDB.

MrOCTeckels

I haven't flown DL in ages, so I don't know what the carry-on situation is like, but on UA I'd want to board with group 1 and have the GA come get me if I am selected for VDB. I suspect I'm not the only one who would behave that way.

eng3

I see no problem with the current IDB process. No process will ever prevent an idiot DYKWIA from refusing to move from his seat. (How that is dealt with is another issue. If you don't want to physically remove him, you could just cancel the flight and piss off several hundred more people) The only way would be to remove IDB all together and never overbook. But ofcourse this will eventually drive ticket prices up and increase delays in the process which will also piss off people. You can't make everyone happy. Acting like a child won't make things any better.

kop84

Often you do have to gate check your bag. While I've seen anecdotal evidence on FT about occasionally the GA coming to get someone off the plane for VDB, it's not SOP from what I've observed.

LordHamster

I'm not sure how auctioning off dutch people will help.


But it would have been more appropriate with United's old Tulip logo.

Kevin AA

Never overbooking would not have made any difference here (not to mention driving fares up as a result). Making airlines reserve 4 seats for crewmembers on every flight would drive fares even higher. The solution is to offer enough VDB to get the volunteers you need.

Zeeb

It is straightforward and consistent - if you need a last second ticket you'll be paying through the nose to get it. If the airlines need to take your seat away at the last second they can do the same.

tarlinian

I think it's important to note that in the current business environment, the "natural market outcome" for IDBs is likely significantly higher overbooking rates and little to no meaningful IDB compensation. (i.e., with no regulation on IDB compensation requirements the CoC would likely say we can bump you for any reason we want at any time and you will be refunded and/or moved to a flight of our convenience). The domestic airlines have more than enough market power to pull this off. (Whether this immense market power is an inherent problem depends on how you think markets with natural monopolies should be regulated.)

The existing IDB regulations are better than nothing, but not good enough. IMO, the right solution is to massively increase the minimum required IDB compensation ($10k+) so that you would always be able to VDB folks for less than the cost of an IDB.

I think the other interesting problem brought on by this situation is how to handle the possibility of denied boarding once you get on the plane. As many of you have noted, at that point negotiations for VDB become much more complicated. If a starting offer doesn't immediately result in sufficient volunteers. I think at that point, direct negotiations should occur with only the people who volunteered for a possible bump during check-in or on the app. Since the list of these passengers is pre-populated, it should be possible to have new itineraries available for inspection.

IamBartman

I posited this same point up-thread. Basically, this situation has created the paradigm that once on board, pax have no motivation to leave their seat. How does this help GA's enter in to meaningful negotiations with pax to sort out market clearing compensation? Are you really going to have a GA come in with an iPad and start speaking with someone sitting in a window seat about alternative flights to try to get them to accept the VDB? Imagine if you were sitting in the aisle in that situation.

Zeeb

Does it bother you when an FA talks to the person in the window about what they'd like to drink? Why would that be any different?

IamBartman

False equivalence. The FA asks a quick question ("would you like a drink?"), followed by a quick response ("Sure, I will have a ginger ale"). This is quite different from haggling over alternative flights, possible changes booking class, hotel accommodations, layover duration.

kop84

Totally Agree! A drink order is nearly always a pleasant exchange. Telling someone on board a plane they're going to have to leave the plane, like it or not, is likely to be a very negative experience for not only the potential "victim" but the passengers near by as well.