Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.
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N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
Apr 13, 2017, 12:20 pm
#4861
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 125
There is no obligation for the police to read someone their rights prior to talking with them - if there was, every police interaction, field interview or vehicle stop would be accompanied by them. They're not going to stand in the airplane aisle to read him his rights.
The bigger issue in play is how you can use brute force to remove someone, cause severe injury, and deem that it's not an arrest. Still waiting for the police report to make an appearance to explain that. It's the elephant in the corner of the room that keeps making an appearance.
The bigger issue in play is how you can use brute force to remove someone, cause severe injury, and deem that it's not an arrest. Still waiting for the police report to make an appearance to explain that. It's the elephant in the corner of the room that keeps making an appearance.
Apr 13, 2017, 12:22 pm
#4862
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Nawthun Virginia
Programs: Air: UA (Gold), AA, WN, DL; Hotel: Hilton (Diamond), plus all the rest
Posts: 135
I'm going to play devils advocate here for discussions sake.
Has anything come out yet about UA's interaction with Dr Dao BEFORE the videos started rolling? What caused UA to call the police in to remove Dr. Dao? Something had to happen to make UA call in the police, they don't just start with the police to have someone IDB'd. Did a GA or FA approach Dr. Dao and explain the situation and that he had been selected to be involuntarily asked to leave the plane? Was he belligerent in this initial contact?
Has anything come out yet about UA's interaction with Dr Dao BEFORE the videos started rolling? What caused UA to call the police in to remove Dr. Dao? Something had to happen to make UA call in the police, they don't just start with the police to have someone IDB'd. Did a GA or FA approach Dr. Dao and explain the situation and that he had been selected to be involuntarily asked to leave the plane? Was he belligerent in this initial contact?
At this point, speculation begins. Most witnesses agreed that the GA was brusque and uncooperative, and also uncreative in finding solutions. I think that it is therefore plausible that the GA reacted to Dao's heated refusal as belligerence, and called the cops. After the cops arrived, we have video, and that video shows relatively calm discussion from Dao that being delayed by 22 hours is unreasonable, which was ignored by the cops. He may have calmed down compared to previous heatedness with the GA, but not one witness has been published as stating that his responses were unreasonable.
Last edited by Rdenney; Apr 13, 2017 at 1:08 pm
Apr 13, 2017, 12:24 pm
#4863
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
That's something that's benefited many FTers and heavy fliers, but it's not a viable business model.
Apr 13, 2017, 12:25 pm
#4864
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Nawthun Virginia
Programs: Air: UA (Gold), AA, WN, DL; Hotel: Hilton (Diamond), plus all the rest
Posts: 135
Apr 13, 2017, 12:26 pm
#4865
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 118
adding more gas to the fire but I got a text with similar info stating united solicited volunteers, this "dr" and his wife willingly got off the plane and was booked a hotel & a flight for the next day but then changed their mind & ran back on the plane, were asked to leave several times and that's when the airport police were called.Videos didn't start rolling till this point.
I've seen a video from right behind his seat & the "dr" was on his phone with someone, still refusing to leave till things got heated and ugly.
before I get roasted, I'm a little dubious and not putting all my eggs in one basket like some are doing on the other side of this issue. plus who says whats in the wiki is 100% correct, a lot of the info is conflicting.
I've seen a video from right behind his seat & the "dr" was on his phone with someone, still refusing to leave till things got heated and ugly.
before I get roasted, I'm a little dubious and not putting all my eggs in one basket like some are doing on the other side of this issue. plus who says whats in the wiki is 100% correct, a lot of the info is conflicting.
Apr 13, 2017, 12:26 pm
#4866
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 143
Apr 13, 2017, 12:28 pm
#4867
Original Member and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA
Programs: DL PM/MM, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Glob, HH Dia, National ECE, Hertz PC
Posts: 16,579
I bet the lawyers are already millionaires ... 
No other business relationship is 'completely analogous' (which I read as meaning the same) as a landlord/residential renter relationship. That has not been debunked because it is simply bunk itself.
Only in the US would someone think property rights are more important than human rights. After all I guess that's what slavery is.
What you said has been debunked many times and is completely analogous to the renter/landlord situation. As a landlord you can't just throw someone off your property, not even delinquent tenants or even squatters.
What you said has been debunked many times and is completely analogous to the renter/landlord situation. As a landlord you can't just throw someone off your property, not even delinquent tenants or even squatters.
Apr 13, 2017, 12:28 pm
#4868
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
At this point, speculation begins. Most witnesses agreed that the GA was brusque and uncooperative, and also uncreative in finding solutions. I think that it is therefore plausible that the GA reacted to Dao's heated refusal as belligerence, and called the cops. After the cops arrived, we have video, and that video shows relatively calm discussion from Dao that being delayed by 22 hours is unreasonable, which was ignored by the cops. He may have calmed down compared to previous heatedness with the GA, but not one witness has been published as stating that his responses were unreasonable.
Apr 13, 2017, 12:29 pm
#4869
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Independent! But mostly BKK, BCN, SFO, PDX, SEA...
Programs: Lawl COVID
Posts: 1,060
Especially since it was framed in the context of Dao having "anger issues" which would coincide in justifying their use of force in re-accommodating him. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they weren't involved. Chicago PD are dirty, I've had firsthand experience dealing with them...
Apr 13, 2017, 12:29 pm
#4870
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Programs: Delta
Posts: 43
A couple of quick observations from the CorboyDemetrio GolanChristie & Crystal (Dao) Pepper news conference
I think given the video we've seen (via liveleak & also FaceBook it was shot by Joya Cummings the passenger seated behind Dr. Dao) where Dr Dao explains how long he'd been traveling and how the later flight was too late PLUS Demetrio's preface that Dr. Dao is going to be 'that guy': i.e. the one who is standing up to wrong-headed airline procedure.
I don't think money in the form of a settlement is going to cut it.
I think Demetrio WANTS a trial (and has convinced the Dao family it's a good thing for them). Money is nice (big money is of course nicer) but it wasn't necessarily the motivator for Dao (and his wife also on 3411 who is also a doctor) to voluntarily walk off the plane before the beat down (had UAL asked the Daos how soon they needed to be home & moved heaven & earth to get them there, in other words had they realized TIME was their big concern to satisfy in negotiation for their seat(s), we wouldn't have this monster thread. But they didn't and here we are)
Now it's potentially a cause celebre. It's a career high for Demetrio. It will get him more clients (maybe even a separate suit with all the un-physically-injured passengers on 3411 seeking compensation for the emotional & mental injury they were subjected to). It will get Demetrio a greater reputation (if he handles it correctly).
There will be all kinds of non-monetary rewards for Demetrio (and possibly Dr. Dao, though right now, Dao's first priority is to get through reconstructive surgery & as much of a medical recovery as he can, which may not be 100% due to the concussion, the evidence of which we all saw in the 'I want to go home' & 'they/just kill me' videos).
I noticed that Demetrio in passing cited the 1st class passenger flying from Hawaii on UAL full fare who was pulled off his flight (and handcuffing was threatened to coax/coerce him down into economy) for 'a higher priority' passenger (mentioned by David Sirota in his LA Times article the link is on this thread a couple times). I don't know if Demetrio actually talked to that passenger but he's at least aware of the newspaper article (and maybe is wooing that passenger for some more legal business). That is a significant thing to bring up in the press conference (and in crafting his client's story).
No this does not feel like a case that settles for mere money. This is a chance for Demetrio and Dao to be heroic (get airline policies changed, maybe change some laws, make everyone around the world who flies feel a little more human / respected in future, which will make Dao & Demetrio respected by a lot of ordinary people). They're not gonna go quietly for some admittedly big number. That's too cheap & the wrong metric to get a settlement.
I don't think UAL's in-house counsel are ready for someone who won't sign a confidentiality agreement & take a big payoff. They'll try and they'll get themselves the best outside litigators they can. But I don't see a deal especially one with a confidentiality agreement and no guarantee of change.
This will be a fascinating trial, WAY more interesting than People v. Simpson. And the world will be enthralled by it.
I think given the video we've seen (via liveleak & also FaceBook it was shot by Joya Cummings the passenger seated behind Dr. Dao) where Dr Dao explains how long he'd been traveling and how the later flight was too late PLUS Demetrio's preface that Dr. Dao is going to be 'that guy': i.e. the one who is standing up to wrong-headed airline procedure.
I don't think money in the form of a settlement is going to cut it.
I think Demetrio WANTS a trial (and has convinced the Dao family it's a good thing for them). Money is nice (big money is of course nicer) but it wasn't necessarily the motivator for Dao (and his wife also on 3411 who is also a doctor) to voluntarily walk off the plane before the beat down (had UAL asked the Daos how soon they needed to be home & moved heaven & earth to get them there, in other words had they realized TIME was their big concern to satisfy in negotiation for their seat(s), we wouldn't have this monster thread. But they didn't and here we are)
Now it's potentially a cause celebre. It's a career high for Demetrio. It will get him more clients (maybe even a separate suit with all the un-physically-injured passengers on 3411 seeking compensation for the emotional & mental injury they were subjected to). It will get Demetrio a greater reputation (if he handles it correctly).
There will be all kinds of non-monetary rewards for Demetrio (and possibly Dr. Dao, though right now, Dao's first priority is to get through reconstructive surgery & as much of a medical recovery as he can, which may not be 100% due to the concussion, the evidence of which we all saw in the 'I want to go home' & 'they/just kill me' videos).
I noticed that Demetrio in passing cited the 1st class passenger flying from Hawaii on UAL full fare who was pulled off his flight (and handcuffing was threatened to coax/coerce him down into economy) for 'a higher priority' passenger (mentioned by David Sirota in his LA Times article the link is on this thread a couple times). I don't know if Demetrio actually talked to that passenger but he's at least aware of the newspaper article (and maybe is wooing that passenger for some more legal business). That is a significant thing to bring up in the press conference (and in crafting his client's story).
No this does not feel like a case that settles for mere money. This is a chance for Demetrio and Dao to be heroic (get airline policies changed, maybe change some laws, make everyone around the world who flies feel a little more human / respected in future, which will make Dao & Demetrio respected by a lot of ordinary people). They're not gonna go quietly for some admittedly big number. That's too cheap & the wrong metric to get a settlement.
I don't think UAL's in-house counsel are ready for someone who won't sign a confidentiality agreement & take a big payoff. They'll try and they'll get themselves the best outside litigators they can. But I don't see a deal especially one with a confidentiality agreement and no guarantee of change.
This will be a fascinating trial, WAY more interesting than People v. Simpson. And the world will be enthralled by it.
Last edited by NotSoOftenFlyer; Apr 13, 2017 at 12:36 pm Reason: Forgot a point (made in a few sentences)
Apr 13, 2017, 12:30 pm
#4871
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: UA SP, DL SM MM, AS 75K, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond.
Posts: 2,596
Apr 13, 2017, 12:31 pm
#4872
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SDF
Programs: DL:360/DM/6 MMer; Bonvoy: Lifetime Titanium 10+M pts, 3100+ nights;
Posts: 1,441
This women violated security and safety rules by boarding without approval. It did not occur last week during the ATL-mageddon. She also does not appear to have been beaten into submission.
Apr 13, 2017, 12:34 pm
#4873
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN (MSP)
Programs: DL DM, UA 1K MM, Subway Club Member
Posts: 1,988
There is no obligation for the police to read someone their rights prior to talking with them - if there was, every police interaction, field interview or vehicle stop would be accompanied by them. They're not going to stand in the airplane aisle to read him his rights.
The bigger issue in play is how you can use brute force to remove someone, cause severe injury, and deem that it's not an arrest. Still waiting for the police report to make an appearance to explain that. It's the elephant in the corner of the room that keeps making an appearance.
The bigger issue in play is how you can use brute force to remove someone, cause severe injury, and deem that it's not an arrest. Still waiting for the police report to make an appearance to explain that. It's the elephant in the corner of the room that keeps making an appearance.
At this point, speculation begins. Most witnesses agreed that the GA was brusque and uncooperative, and also uncreative in finding solutions. I think that it is therefore plausible that the GA reacted to Dao's heated refusal as belligerence, and called the cops. After the cops arrived, we have video, and that video shows relatively calm discussion from Dao that being delayed by 22 hours is unreasonable, which was ignored by the cops. He may have calmed down compared to previous heatedness with the GA, but not one witness has been published as stating that his responses were unreasonable.
We should stop referring to them as police or law enforcement since they are neither.
Last edited by kenn0223; Apr 13, 2017 at 12:42 pm
Apr 13, 2017, 12:34 pm
#4874
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
A number of eyewitness accounts reported that the GA was brusque and demanding, and announced that if four volunteers weren't found, they would select four people at random to be bumped. The GA refuse an offer from a passenger volunteer for $1600, and that offer was laughed off. The GA then selected four passengers, and two were argumentative but in the agreed. Dao was the third, and he simply refused, stating that he was a doctor and had patents to see the next day and could not be delayed for 22 hours. One witness claimed that he became heated when the GA insisted.
At this point, speculation begins. Most witnesses agreed that the GA was brusque and uncooperative, and also uncreative in finding solutions. I think that it is therefore plausible that the GA reacted to Dao's heated refusal as belligerence, and called the cops. After the cops arrived, we have video, and that video shows relatively calm discussion from Dao that being delayed by 22 hours is unreasonable, which was ignored by the cops. He may have calmed down compared to previous heatedness with the GA, but not one witness has been published as stating that his responses were unreasonable.
At this point, speculation begins. Most witnesses agreed that the GA was brusque and uncooperative, and also uncreative in finding solutions. I think that it is therefore plausible that the GA reacted to Dao's heated refusal as belligerence, and called the cops. After the cops arrived, we have video, and that video shows relatively calm discussion from Dao that being delayed by 22 hours is unreasonable, which was ignored by the cops. He may have calmed down compared to previous heatedness with the GA, but not one witness has been published as stating that his responses were unreasonable.
They are framing it on United overbooking policy and the police handling.
Given the injuries, Chicago is now on the hook for a lot more liability than it was when it just appeared to be a cut lip.
Apr 13, 2017, 12:36 pm
#4875
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus, SkyMiles
Posts: 4,159