Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.
The United Moderator team:
J.Edward
l'etoile
Ocn Vw 1K
Pat89339
WineCountryUA
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
#3256
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Stockholm, Sweden + Austin, Tx
Programs: "But, I'm a GLOBALIST guest...."
Posts: 2,848
Sad to still see people bring up the person's past in context where it is completely irrelevant. Do I preface addressing people by what they did in the past? If this person did drugs and theft, and did the time, do I say "Hey Mr. druggie and thief " all the time? Would you like it if people dug up your wrongdoings and used them as if that invalidated your position?
No wonder we have such an issue with our prison systems today...
No wonder we have such an issue with our prison systems today...
The issue with our prison system has to do with institutional racism and the war on drugs that primarily targets black youth. The problem has nothing to do with a rich doctor pleaing out of nearly 100 felony charges.
#3257
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: The electrified part of North Carolina
Programs: UA GM, AA GM, DL GM
Posts: 4,157
There was a drop in the middle of the day yesterday, but it recovered.
The current stock price is around where it was on Friday afternoon.
http://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ual?ltr=1
The current stock price is around where it was on Friday afternoon.
http://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ual?ltr=1
#3258
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,045
Of course United could have avoided the situation but it happened because various factors combined to create a perfect storm. 100s of regrettable B.S. situations happen in the course of a day in any organization with a lot of staff. I know because I've seen it myself, in big public institutions, in mid-sized businesses and in massive mega corps.
The thing that turned this from an every day occurrence of tough luck to such a big story was the dude's aberrant behavior. Behavior we know now is quite typical of the man in question.
The thing that turned this from an every day occurrence of tough luck to such a big story was the dude's aberrant behavior. Behavior we know now is quite typical of the man in question.
#3259
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Nawthun Virginia
Programs: Air: UA (Gold), AA, WN, DL; Hotel: Hilton (Diamond), plus all the rest
Posts: 135
Several years ago. DUT-AKB. Waited 3 days for the weather to fly and we were on the plane when the airline decided to switch the flight to a scheduled charter also to AKB. Kicked us off the plane and we waited another 4 days for clear weather to fly. It sucks but it never occurred to me to refuse to get off the plane. I am completely sympathetic to the passenger but somehow 3 others understood and complied with the IDB instructions. All parties involved had a responsibility to deescalate the situation.
#3260
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 47
I don't think this would split into an airline people vs. passengers. I think a lot of employees are just as embarrassed and shocked at how this went down. It's plain to me that the ones most keen on attacking this man are motivated by political ideology - this is about defending their notion of cops and law and order for them - than it is about supporting an industry. That's why all the arguments boil down to the man didn't obey the cop and they ignore he stuff the rest of us think is important like United's role in creating this situation and failing to solve it peacefully. The arguments and tactics we've seen in this thread are the same ones that are deployed when a traffic stop results in a dead driver. The particular facts and circumstances of this incident don't influence them.
Last edited by ddarko; Apr 11, 2017 at 1:51 pm
#3261
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MCI; frequent LHR, FRA, ZRH, HKG, OSL, PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.7MM
Posts: 20
I asked generically on the Simple Questions thread, but does any one know if the gate agent was a UA or UX employee? Are the gate agents always direclty employed by UA, or in cases where there is a large concentration of UX gates in the hubs, are they directly employed by the contract carriers?
#3262
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,405
But you are? Modern criminal law believes in reintegrating criminals into society. You accuse a man, you don't know, of currently being a danger and a criminal without having any proof to support your claims.
And even if the passenger was currently accused of crimes, presumption of innocence would apply to former criminals too.
The video of this incident confirm just that. Rather than escorting the passenger out, they preferred to injure him and dragging him out. The allegation, that excessive force was used, coincides with the fact that the cop(s) in question was suspended on the grounds that SOP were not followed.
#3263
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dfw
Programs: AA Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 49
Nice 180 on the PR...makes you wonder why this statement wasn't released 24 hours ago. Now it is met with skepticism.
But it had to be said...if UA keep digging and doubling-down this firestorm would only grow.
But it had to be said...if UA keep digging and doubling-down this firestorm would only grow.
#3264
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 143
Interesting that, as many of us were speculating last night, by United's admission this was NOT an Oversold situation and as such IDB was not authorized. But, hey, when you've got cops and/or gate agents willing to lie about a 69 year old guy sitting in a seat taking a punch at LEO, what's a few pesky contract provisions to worry about?
#3265
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SJC, SFO, YYC
Programs: AA-EXP, AA-0.41MM, UA-Gold, Ex UA-1K (2006 thru 2015), PMUA-0.95MM, COUA-1.5MM-lite, AF-Silver
Posts: 13,437
Quite the reversal by Oscar.
I've seen such contrition in CEOs before. Right before the board fires them.
I've seen such contrition in CEOs before. Right before the board fires them.
#3266
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 716
Doesn't matter what happened years ago, in a civil suit, preponderance of the evidence is key to determining whether UA is liable or not.
The evidence doesn't look good for UA at the moment. There would have to literally be video of him pulling a Ben Stiller on-board to change anyone's mind now that the image of his bloody face is etched in peoples' heads.
Would you feel different if he were a clergyman, brothel owner, pipe fitter, lawyer, politician, fireman? What he did years ago has no bearing on what happened on that flight.
The evidence doesn't look good for UA at the moment. There would have to literally be video of him pulling a Ben Stiller on-board to change anyone's mind now that the image of his bloody face is etched in peoples' heads.
Would you feel different if he were a clergyman, brothel owner, pipe fitter, lawyer, politician, fireman? What he did years ago has no bearing on what happened on that flight.
#3267
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Rewards - LTPP
Posts: 4,240
There are about 765,000 sworn police officers in the US. Saying "there is a tendency among US cops to use excessive force" is grossly exaggerated.
#3268
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
Sad to still see people bring up the person's past in context where it is completely irrelevant. Do I preface addressing people by what they did in the past? If this person did drugs and theft, and did the time, do I say "Hey Mr. druggie and thief " all the time? Would you like it if people dug up your wrongdoings and used them as if that invalidated your position?
No wonder we have such an issue with our prison systems today...
No wonder we have such an issue with our prison systems today...
I think it's hilarious how some people here think the wording 'lawful police order' means that a civilian can choose based on their own amateur legal opinion on whether to comply with officers or that their compliance can be postponed until the Supreme Court has settled the legality. It's also amazing how people think the order to leave an airplane is somehow 'extreme' rather than a reasonable request based on the situation (i.e. the operator of the airplane is refusing to transport the person). People watch too much TV, read too much crap and generally think they're all Civil Rights heroes because they talk back every time they get an instruction.
#3269
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,745
Thank you to the folks updating the wiki, because I simply cannot keep up with this thread. I keep seeing references to subsequent facts that are coming to light, but haven't yet been able to track back to all the original posts (and I'd assume/hope links out to sources).
#3270
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,664
Interesting that, as many of us were speculating last night, by United's admission this was NOT an Oversold situation and as such IDB was not authorized. But, hey, when you've got cops and/or gate agents willing to lie about a 69 year old guy sitting in a seat taking a punch at LEO, what's a few pesky contract provisions to worry about?