Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.
The United Moderator team:
J.Edward
l'etoile
Ocn Vw 1K
Pat89339
WineCountryUA
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
#3046
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Obliviously I do and you don't. What has been suggested would empower the passengers to escalate any situation with threat. The airline now has no rights on their own property. They are held hostage to the passenger's demands. Their only recourse would be to cancel the flight.
#3047
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SFO/CDG
Programs: UA 1k
Posts: 211
They need the employees to be in a hotel by a certain time to be available to fly the next morning by FAA regulations. This flight was the way to do that. I would guess (but don't know) that this situation was recognized/created very shortly before the flight in question was scheduled to leave. I don't think its the fault of the deadheading crew.
The second level problem is that the gate agents do not have the authority to just offer limitless compensation to get people to deplane. None of this justifies the outcome.
The second level problem is that the gate agents do not have the authority to just offer limitless compensation to get people to deplane. None of this justifies the outcome.
Okay so how is this not the fault of the 4 UA employees calling in sooner (they have cell phones right?) to let gate agent(s) know that there was going to be a problem?
Had it been me I would have gotten the employees an Uber or something rather than risk pissing off (much less battering) a passenger but hindsight is 20/20.
Thanks BuBu4!
Had it been me I would have gotten the employees an Uber or something rather than risk pissing off (much less battering) a passenger but hindsight is 20/20.
Thanks BuBu4!
#3048
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
I'm not sure this is the case. I take no position on the people who work for UA, but why would they have any information about the passenger to dump onto the Internet? I usually don't have to submit my entire life history to an airline in order to purchase a ticket.
#3049
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CAK/CLE
Programs: UA Plat/AA,DL Dirt/HH Diamond,Hyatt Something-ist/Hz Prez,Avis Pres Club
Posts: 674
Okay so how is this not the fault of the 4 UA employees calling in sooner (they have cell phones right?) to let gate agent(s) know that there was going to be a problem?
Had it been me I would have gotten the employees an Uber or something rather than risk pissing off (much less battering) a passenger but hindsight is 20/20.
Thanks BuBu4!
Had it been me I would have gotten the employees an Uber or something rather than risk pissing off (much less battering) a passenger but hindsight is 20/20.
Thanks BuBu4!
5 hours in a car traveling to SDF would have counted against the rest time that the crew needed, making it impossible for them to work the flight they were being sent to SDF for in the first place. UA probably should have sent 4 people by ground transportation to SDF right away if a flight wasn't going to do it sooner, but the ride was not an option for the crew.
#3050
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
Ben Baldanza, of all people (ex-Spirit CEO), interviewed on CNBC just now. Never thought I'd see the day when Baldanza is schooling United on customer service.
He said:
** This is an incident that was caused largely by UA. Had someone notified the gate in advance that the deadheaders were en route, the gate could have handled boarding accordingly.
** UA public response thus far has been tone-deaf; they should have said, right off the top, we've made a lot of mistakes here.
** They probably have some internal policy that limits how high the gate can go (on compensation offers)... gate agents tend to do a good job with overbooking when they know there's going to be an issue... that wasn't the case here.
** (Should consumers assume the seat they sit down in during boarding, that they've paid for, isn't really theirs until the plane takes off? Was what UA did legal or not?) Whether it's legal or not, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
** The decision to pull people off the plane didn't need to happen. The decision to call security in was probably because they felt constrained re: how much they could give to customers in compensation.
** (Should there be protection for consumers against getting pulled off the plane?) It's a slippery slope, though -- what if someone is genuinely belligerent, or a security risk?
He said:
** This is an incident that was caused largely by UA. Had someone notified the gate in advance that the deadheaders were en route, the gate could have handled boarding accordingly.
** UA public response thus far has been tone-deaf; they should have said, right off the top, we've made a lot of mistakes here.
** They probably have some internal policy that limits how high the gate can go (on compensation offers)... gate agents tend to do a good job with overbooking when they know there's going to be an issue... that wasn't the case here.
** (Should consumers assume the seat they sit down in during boarding, that they've paid for, isn't really theirs until the plane takes off? Was what UA did legal or not?) Whether it's legal or not, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
** The decision to pull people off the plane didn't need to happen. The decision to call security in was probably because they felt constrained re: how much they could give to customers in compensation.
** (Should there be protection for consumers against getting pulled off the plane?) It's a slippery slope, though -- what if someone is genuinely belligerent, or a security risk?
#3051
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SNA
Programs: AA gold, DL Gold, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Plat
Posts: 446
Common usage of the word boarding is to "get on" an aircraft regardless of the ambiguous fine print. I doubt the vast majority of English-speaking people will read anything more into the word.
#3052
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London (LCY)
Programs: BA bronze, Hilton gold, Marriott gold, IHG plat, Meliá gold, Radisson gold, Hyatt disc, AmexPlat
Posts: 977
#3053
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,664
Okay so how is this not the fault of the 4 UA employees calling in sooner (they have cell phones right?) to let gate agent(s) know that there was going to be a problem?
Had it been me I would have gotten the employees an Uber or something rather than risk pissing off (much less battering) a passenger but hindsight is 20/20.
Thanks BuBu4!
Had it been me I would have gotten the employees an Uber or something rather than risk pissing off (much less battering) a passenger but hindsight is 20/20.
Thanks BuBu4!
The 4 likely didn't know until slightly before the gate agent did, the crew wouldn't have been to call the gate, the information would come probably from other OPS personal.
#3054
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,049
Thanks there's always 3000 (I think I'm a little above the IDP cut though) and 4000! Well, and.....
#3055
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
Do we know that the crew being sent to SDF knew far in advance that they would be sent there? It isn't necessarily their job to call ahead to a gate to say "hold us some seats!".....that is the job of the carrier and gate staff.
5 hours in a car traveling to SDF would have counted against the rest time that the crew needed, making it impossible for them to work the flight they were being sent to SDF for in the first place. UA probably should have sent 4 people by ground transportation to SDF right away if a flight wasn't going to do it sooner, but the ride was not an option for the crew.
5 hours in a car traveling to SDF would have counted against the rest time that the crew needed, making it impossible for them to work the flight they were being sent to SDF for in the first place. UA probably should have sent 4 people by ground transportation to SDF right away if a flight wasn't going to do it sooner, but the ride was not an option for the crew.
#3056
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Programs: Delta
Posts: 43
They need the employees to be in a hotel by a certain time to be available to fly the next morning by FAA regulations. This flight was the way to do that. I would guess (but don't know) that this situation was recognized/created very shortly before the flight in question was scheduled to leave. I don't think its the fault of the deadheading crew.
The second level problem is that the gate agents do not have the authority to just offer limitless compensation to get people to deplane. None of this justifies the outcome.
The second level problem is that the gate agents do not have the authority to just offer limitless compensation to get people to deplane. None of this justifies the outcome.
First part: Could they not have chartered a plane for the 4 UA employees to get to Louisville? Not cheap I know but that or maybe another airline could have accommodated them? Just brainstorming here.
#3057
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: Landry's President's Club, Marriott Silver, Awesomeness EXPLT
Posts: 20,420
It doesn't take very long to get a background check on someone when you're a large corporation.
#3058
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London (LCY)
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#3059
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
Second part first: I think back in the day gate agents may have had more authority / flexibility in making offers to VDB or IVDB passengers?
First part: Could they not have chartered a plane for the 4 UA employees to get to Louisville? Not cheap I know but that or maybe another airline could have accommodated them? Just brainstorming here.
First part: Could they not have chartered a plane for the 4 UA employees to get to Louisville? Not cheap I know but that or maybe another airline could have accommodated them? Just brainstorming here.
they can put them on other airlines like AA or DL (connecting)
they can oversell the next flight
#3060
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: Landry's President's Club, Marriott Silver, Awesomeness EXPLT
Posts: 20,420
Cheers
Howie