Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

Community
Wiki Posts
Search
Old Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
WELCOME, THREAD GUIDELINES and SUMMARY PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

If you are new to us, welcome to FlyerTalk! Who we are: FlyerTalk features discussions and chat boards that cover the most up-to-date traveler information; an interactive community dedicated to the topic of travel (not politics or arguments about politics or religion, etc. – those discussion are best in the OMNI forum)

The incident discussed in this thread has touched a nerve for many, and many posters are passionate about their opinions and concerns. However we should still have a civil and respectful discussion of this topic. This is because FlyerTalk is meant to be a friendly, helpful, and collegial community. (Rule 12.)

1. The normal FlyerTalk Rules apply. (Including not discussing moderation actions in thread). Please be particularly attentive to "discussing the idea and not the poster" when you have a disagreement. Civility and mutual respect are still expected and are what we owe each other as a community.

2. You are expected to respect the FlyerTalk community's diversity, and therefore refrain from posting inflammatory comments about race, religion, culture, politics, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. Do not cite, copy, or report on such.

3. While you can disagree with an opinion, the holder of that opinion has the same right to their opinion as you have to yours. We request all to respect that and disagree or discuss their point of views without getting overly personal and without attacking the other poster(s). This is expected as a requirement in FT Rule 12.

4. Overly exaggerative posts as well as posts with information that has been posted several times previously may be summarily deleted.

5. In addition, those who repeatedly fail to comply with FlyerTalk Rules, may be subjected to FlyerTalk disciplinary actions and, e.g., have membership privileges suspended, or masked from this forum.

If you have questions about the Rules or concerns about what another has posted in this or other threads in this forum, please do not post about that. Rather, notify the moderators by using the alert symbol within each post or email or send a private message to us moderators.

Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.

The United Moderator team:
J.Edward
l'etoile
Ocn Vw 1K
Pat89339
WineCountryUA

N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
DOT findings related to the UA3411 9 April 2017 IDB incident 12 May 2017

What facts do we know?
  • UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
  • After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
  • United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
  • After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
  • One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
  • The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
  • After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
  • United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”

United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017

Videos

Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411
  • On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
  • We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
  • He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
  • Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
  • Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Email sent to all employees at 2:08PM on Tuesday, April 11.
Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
Statement to customers - 27 April 2017
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Aftermath
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines Reference Material

UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.

If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.

We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx
Print Wikipost

Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:29 am
  #166  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SJC, SFO, YYC
Programs: AA-EXP, AA-0.41MM, UA-Gold, Ex UA-1K (2006 thru 2015), PMUA-0.95MM, COUA-1.5MM-lite, AF-Silver
Posts: 13,437
Originally Posted by Dieuwer
Oh yeah? Airline personnel can simply claim "safety!", confiscate your phone and tell the police officer you "are a danger to the crew and other pax".
If a GA tries to take my phone, he's going to regret it.
mre5765 is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:29 am
  #167  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: iad/dca
Programs: UA Million Mile Gold, Club, AA, Delta, Marriott, Hertz G, A/Club
Posts: 1,106
Originally Posted by Dieuwer
Oh yeah? Airline personnel can simply claim "safety!", confiscate your phone and tell the police officer you "are a danger to the crew and other pax".
A situation totally of their making. If they couldn't carry him they should not have boarded him. How was he selected? Because he was Chinese and gave them lip?
iquitos is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:30 am
  #168  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
Originally Posted by S.R
This was obviously the GA's fault, they should have handled it much better. As many have said, if no one takes the first offer keep going up, and I can guarantee that everyone has a number where they would jump on the offer. The "Manager" is also at fault. They should be the ones reprimanded but probably terminated, as theres no doubt they're not doing their jobs right, in the best interest of their employer.
Can't really blame the cops or security or whatever they were. Sure they used a bit excessive force but they were just doing what they were told to, get the passenger off the plane. It was UA and the GA or manager who called them, when they could've remedied the situation themselves.

If they were doing their job correctly, things would've gone much better and I can guarantee none of this would have happened.
It is the GA's and manager's job to IDB passengers if there are no volunteers. Clearly, there were other shortfalls.
fly18725 is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:30 am
  #169  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYZ / FRA
Programs: IHG RA; Avis First
Posts: 1,444
Its amazing how people here support UA in this situation.

First of all the only time I would support the Airline for doing this IF...
1) The passenger was a "threat" or unruly
2) Maybe he was flying for free!


I do understand that the people defending UA are the people who are loyal people to UA and will always defend them regardless how bad they are. Its useless to argue with these people...

Most or a lot of people here are FF and understand some rules/technicalities that average person doesn't understand, but this is not one of them.

However when someone PAID for a product/service, aka the company took the money already. He has the right to get his service. To use force/authority to remove the person because of "your" mistake is unacceptable. Because of this the person reacted how he should react. He was treated like a suspect/criminal.

Even if he got offered money, they probably thought that he would be ok with it like most people, but if he's an MD, most likely he doesn't NEED the $.

The media will have a day with this and the passenger being an MD makes the story even better.
BRAISKI is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:30 am
  #170  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 698
Originally Posted by mre5765

This was an over weight issue, period.
How do you know?????????????????????????
mysterym is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:31 am
  #171  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Originally Posted by iquitos
. How much with this PR disaster cost United?
Who knows, but it's almost entirely unwarranted. The only possible specific implication they had in this is policy on the amount of VDB compensation that should be changed.
minnyfly is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:31 am
  #172  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by STS-134
What kind of idiots do they have running the airline? Everything is for sale at the right price. No one would give up their seat for $800? Then try $1000. If not $1500, then try $1500, or $2000. Eventually someone will bite. And they'll likely post on social media about how generous the airline was to give them such a high compensation in exchange for taking a later flight instead of...well this.
+1 my thoughts exactly. It would have also been a lot cheaper than the resources they are putting into handling the press today.
bizorbetter is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:31 am
  #173  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
Originally Posted by Dieuwer
Why can't the airline business be treated similarly as e.g. interstate bus transport? You think Greyhound can "overbook" and "drag people from buses"?
Off topic, but Greyhound overbooks all the time. If you're trying to board in the middle of a run and the bus pulls in full and nobody gets off, you're SOL, ticket or no ticket.
BearX220 is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:31 am
  #174  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Chevelter
The man looks like he has mental issues to me.
Based on what, exactly? The video of him being knocked out, dragged out, with a bloody mouth? Or perhaps the video of him tossed back on the plane (after being knocked out, dragged out with a bloody mouth)?

Or was it the screaming? Are you not supposed to scream if you're being knocked out, dragged out, with a bloody mouth?
shinbob is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:31 am
  #175  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 15,027
Originally Posted by mre5765
If a GA tries to take my phone, he's going to regret it.
Then the FA will scream "terrorism!" and you will be beaten and dragged of the plane like an animal. Is that what you want?
FA's have extreme power these days with their "comply or else" attitude.
Dieuwer is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:32 am
  #176  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K+K
Programs: *G
Posts: 4,871
Originally Posted by minnyfly
It doesn't matter that he paid for a seat. Legally that means nothing.

Mistakes were made by both parties, but the clearest mistake was the man's refusal to comply with airline employees and then the police. That is the only action made against the law.
.
When he paid for the ticket he entered into a contract. That means very much.

If you go back to root-cause, the very clearest mistake is the carrier overselling the seats. Not the guy being denied service at the absolute last second. Therefore it is on them to resolve the situation in a way more amicable than physically yanking someone off against their will.
deniah is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:33 am
  #177  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: MFR
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,885
imagine what this world would be like if we all just shut up and did as we were told by various "authorities" . This guy stood up for his rights, he knew he hadn't done anything wrong. He faced a huge humiliation, and in return he will come out looking like a hero. Good on him.
chavala is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:33 am
  #178  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 698
Originally Posted by deniah
When he paid for the ticket he entered into a contract. That means very much.

If you go back to root-cause, the very clearest mistake is the carrier overselling the seats. Not the guy being denied service at the absolute last second. Therefore it is on them to resolve the situation in a way more amicable than physically yanking someone off against their will.
Another logical reply
mysterym is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:33 am
  #179  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYZ / FRA
Programs: IHG RA; Avis First
Posts: 1,444
Originally Posted by Aussienarelle
This happened to me in January. Well not me refusing to get off the plane and the police getting involved.

I had a boarding pass (that had been issued in FRA) and was also on my app. Scan the BP to be told my F seat had been given to someone else as my flight was late but I made it to the gate before everyone else from my flight and they all got their seats. They asked if I was okay to sit in Y and I said yes. I just wanted to get home (this was the last leg SFO-SAN). Got on the plane, put my luggage in the overhead, sat in the my newly assigned seat 7A. Then they come back and say I need to get off the plane they do not have a seat for me and a standby passager was getting my seat. Back up the jet way and GA asked me why I refused the Y seat, and I said I did not refuse it and in fact sat in it for a few minutes until told I needed to get off the plane.

Wrote to UA who apologised and said they would look into the situation and get back to me. Of course they never did get back to me to explain or offer any compensation.

So do not know how and why it happened and I was upset as I just wanted to get home - i sympathize /understand the guy not wanting to give up his seat when he was already seated.

BTW - @wolf72, UA did not remove my luggage from the flight. My checked luggage was waiting for me in SAN when I arrived on a later flight. So they do not remove luggage in this situation (apparently).

So you're 1K and MM, they still kicked you out?!
BRAISKI is offline  
Old Apr 10, 2017, 9:34 am
  #180  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,001
Originally Posted by athome
Yes, You may have seen something like this. But was it also somebody, who didn't want to give up his seat after boarding?
It might have been a criminal, a suspect, who tried to leave the country. That's in Germany, as in all other countries aound teh world a different situation.
Are you confirmative that it was the same situation?
Do not compare not comparable things.
You do understand that here, in America, the news media and the bloggers don't care why the man was removed, they only care that "excessive force" was used.
So yes, they are comparable situations.

You and I do not know what the man did before the officers arrived. What if he threatened the crew? So we are all making judgements with incomplete information.
zombietooth is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.