lixiaojuventus

I am very curious about this aspect. Do you have more information on why the scissor hub model no longer works?

Melodsal

CKG would be very nice.

sbm12

Because many of the destinations can be served from the US mainland more efficiently and cost-effectively thanks to the newer generation of aircraft. And most travelers care most about just getting where they're going. Singapore has more and better connection options for more UA customers with the SFO-SIN nonstop than without it. TPE has the nonstop now. Many cities in China which would previously connect in Tokyo are now served nonstop.

Bemoaning the loss of the Narita hub is like crying over the loss of Anchorage or Hawaii tech stops a generation ago. There may be some nostalgia there but the evolution of aircraft and markets makes that sort of operation much less competitive overall.

1kBill

Not that I can find. The only thing I found doing a search was a posting on airliners.net. Doing a search on UA's site only brings up a reference to UA serving HGH through CA.

uastarflyer

The flight lands in SFO almost the same time from Asia (v NRT/HKG), so I don't see a benefit there.

Funny you mention HNL tech stops. HNL now doesn't have a UA metal path to SIN.

sbm12

Sure, if SFO is your final stop. But it leaves SIN hours later which is a nice benefit - no more 5:30a departure - and if connecting beyond SFO the benefit is even greater. Far more cities are now served via a one-stop service than before.

Neither does ANC. And, AFAIK, HNL never did. You should note that I specifically referred to prior generations in that reference. As in all the flights to the South Pacific used to stop in HNL and now they do not because the planes got better. Just like flights to Asia used to stop in ANC and now they do not because planes got better.

PsiFighter37

You could do HNL-NRT-SIN on all UA metal.

sbm12

And you can do HNL-SFO-SIN if you want. It will add about 5 hours to the already laboriously long journey. NH, JL and KE offer a much shorter routing; each is better timed than the current UA option. And, AFAIK, the NH flights are part of the UA/NH JV so UA will do just fine if passengers choose that option instead.

I understand that the "metal-neutral" JVs are not truly 100% neutral across all benefits/offerings but that's a part of the modern economic and operational climate airlines operate in today. It is the way things are now. UA - and most of its customers - will do better to focus on routes it can serve non-stop from its mainland US hubs rather than at a remote scissor hub in Asia. The few passengers flying from HNL to SIN who prefer UA metal may have to fly a partner now. But that was always the smaller population going to SIN on UA metal anyways, and those coming from the mainland are more likely to do much better without the NRT stop in terms of total travel time and destinations served with a single connection.

EWR764

HNL pax have a path to SIN through NRT by way of a metal-neutral JV, which is preferable (to United) to operating own-metal fifth freedom service.

I doubt the HNLSIN market is large or high-yielding enough where this was a major consideration.

lixiaojuventus

Very insightful for me. Thanks! I am indeed just having some nostalgia about the NRT hub at the moment, mainly because it allowed me to try out various different routings between US and China in the past

coolbeans202

Not that is really matters, but HNL pax can also fly HNL-GUM-HKG-SIN all on UA. Not sure what the connection is like in HKG though.

luckypierre

Be interesting to hear the route planning justification for this choice. With Shanghai only 45 minutes away and trains every 10 minutes, it wouldn't have been my first guesstimate.
Their Xi'an and Chengdu decisions would have suggested CKG

lixiaojuventus

One thing is that PVG is not directly connected by train at the moment. The train only goes to SHA (where a large train hub is located nearby), which is still quite far from PVG. Therefore, HGH (Hangzhou airport) will be much more convenient for the local people.

littletmac020

I thought their business first was decent, and new? can you tell me why its no good (guess just comparing within united)

I think it's more because of the slot issues at PVG, so somewhere close by kind of make sense. Zhejiang province is pretty developed (established manufacturing, but also got hit pretty hard by economic slowdown), and previously they can only go to PVG to fly to US, which is not a easy journey (every 10 min high speed train only gets you to SHA, not PVG, they are an hour apart), and a lot of these people have 2nd home in hangzhou. I think (certainly hope) this route will do well, even better than CTU one. Also with Alibaba headquarter in there and more start-ups, corporate demand for silicon valley is already pretty high. As a local hangzhouness living in the bay, this route comes way sooner than I thought, still.

uastarflyer

Incorrect. The connection options ex-SFO are still robust whether you land at 9am or 10am. The current departure out of SIN to NRT is 7am or 6am, no different than west coast early banks. And SIN is easier with no TSA madness.

HNL-NRT-SIN was very available on UA metal.