Those fees are not going away: Smisek
Jul 31, 2015, 7:28 am
#46
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EWR
Programs: UA .5M, Vistana 1-Star owner
Posts: 992
Nickelling & diming the business traveller who most wants on time performance above UA's 55% last month (some would say 72% but it's lower in most aspects) means I & my friends continue the PR blowback on UA that'll remove their taking any of our business & leisure revenue. After all, that's the only language they understand. They act like a LCC yet want to advertise like the Gulf 3 but anyone in the world especially the US knows how laughable that idea is. In the chase for lowest fare, they also lose. Overall, there're no "changes we will like".
Jul 31, 2015, 7:30 am
#47
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC / TYO / Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS 1.7MM, AA 2.1MM, EK, BA, SQ, CX, Marriot LT, Accor P
Posts: 6,329
Yes, that's true. And it's why the topic is ancillary revenue vs. addressing UA issues. The message itself is fine. But a good CEO can make his point to the street without insulting his customers. In fact, a good CEO would probably use the opportunity to praise his customers..."Our customers have seen the value in unbundling services in their ability to pay just for those they need."
Instead he called us stupid.
Instead he called us stupid.
Jul 31, 2015, 7:37 am
#48
Join Date: Dec 2014
Programs: UA GS ,QF Plat
Posts: 686
- one of them told me that they can't stand having to "justify their business / p&l to some 25 year old, newly minted MBA analyst at some big firm that hasn't figured out how to change their pants yet) ...
And I would be lying through my teeth if I had not experienced those thoughts more than once
And I would be lying through my teeth if I had not experienced those thoughts more than once
Jul 31, 2015, 7:37 am
#49
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
It's not what he said it's how he said it. It comes off as Tone Deaf like a witty reply you'd give to one of your buddy's after a few pints. Not what a CEO should say.
I'd have said something more like --- As much as everyone hates all of the fees, people are voting with their wallets. NK is one of the fastest growing airlines in the world and they have more fees than anyone. Customers continue to book the lowest fare and then pay for the services they want. We are responding to market demand.
That sounds like something a business professional might say
I'd have said something more like --- As much as everyone hates all of the fees, people are voting with their wallets. NK is one of the fastest growing airlines in the world and they have more fees than anyone. Customers continue to book the lowest fare and then pay for the services they want. We are responding to market demand.
That sounds like something a business professional might say
Jul 31, 2015, 7:39 am
#50
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
I get your point, and I don't generally have a lot of respect for analysts, so you might be right. But if I were an analyst, I think I'd rather here that the customers appreciate the unbundling strategy rather than hearing that customers must not understand that UA is a business. It sounds like I'm at war with my customers and they are confused/unhappy. Perhaps this was just a way to prepare analysts for the message that UA is losing more customers? They're leaving because they don't understand, but don't worry they'll be back after watching a few more cat videos.
Jul 31, 2015, 7:45 am
#51
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
Jeff - and those that support him - no doubt believes that what he said was perfectly innocuous, and that he wasn't trying to be condescending. The reality, however, about public speaking is that what the speaker intends to say and what the audience absorbs can be two entirely different messages.
It has been said of George Washington that he had his staff proofread every piece of correspondence and every speech, so that his intended message was measured, sober, and not too optimistic. Smisek (and Rainey) could benefit from someone doing the same for him.
It has been said of George Washington that he had his staff proofread every piece of correspondence and every speech, so that his intended message was measured, sober, and not too optimistic. Smisek (and Rainey) could benefit from someone doing the same for him.
Jul 31, 2015, 7:50 am
#52
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC / TYO / Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS 1.7MM, AA 2.1MM, EK, BA, SQ, CX, Marriot LT, Accor P
Posts: 6,329
I get your point, and I don't generally have a lot of respect for analysts, so you might be right. But if I were an analyst, I think I'd rather here that the customers appreciate the unbundling strategy rather than hearing that customers must not understand that UA is a business. It sounds like I'm at war with my customers and they are confused/unhappy. Perhaps this was just a way to prepare analysts for the message that UA is losing more customers? They're leaving because they don't understand, but don't worry they'll be back after watching a few more cat videos.
It was a long hard lesson I learned when I worked for public companies:
Momentum (there is definitely a herd mentality on Wall street) + ability to drive stock price appreciation > business fundamentals + long term focus and investment - pretty much every day.... The great CEO's & companies figure out a way to deliver in the short term without sacrificing (entirely) the long term - in my mind UA hasn't figured this out yet - in multiple ways...
The reverse is true as well - and may well be Jeff's undoing - when things get tight, and UA can't grow revenues and starts to lose money - all these glowing analysts will abandon the stock so fast it will make your head spin - and then the board will do what boards do....
Jul 31, 2015, 8:13 am
#53
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 6km East of EPAYE
Programs: UA Silver, AA Platinum, AS & DL GM Marriott TE, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,582
MOST people are having a hard time recognizing them as a business. Businesses usually do things to entice their customers to stay loyal, to offer a product that the customer wants to buy. To treat their customers with respect rather than contempt.
United does not do these things...
United does not do these things...
This nails it. It isn't that UA is a business, it's that they are charging us for a stick in the eye.
Jul 31, 2015, 8:48 am
#54
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: UA SP, DL SM MM, AS 75K, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond.
Posts: 2,596
MOST people are having a hard time recognizing them as a business. Businesses usually do things to entice their customers to stay loyal, to offer a product that the customer wants to buy. To treat their customers with respect rather than contempt.
United does not do these things...
United does not do these things...
Once you get away from the pointless ad hominem attacks of FT, there is nothing other than fact in what he said. Fees are here to stay. The HVC's don't care because they are not likely paying to check bags if they check them at all. As to change fees, that is a mess of UA (as well as DL and AA's) own making. If non-refundable meant non-refundable as it does elsewhere, there would be no kvetching.
FT didn't feed the stupid words to him, or misquote him. And who would buy a completely non-refundable anything, besides a used car? And even that "sold as is" item is frequently challenged and won in court when it goes wrong. I can conclude you don't think the people here are rational or objective, because they've come to a conclusion you don't agree with. Jeff is looking for a new speech writer, you should apply.
Last edited by transportbiz; Jul 31, 2015 at 9:03 am
Jul 31, 2015, 9:00 am
#55
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,653
It might be difficult, but it happens all the time. If you're going to speak in public, having your comments misunderstood is part of the risk one accepts by appearing and speaking in public. So the wise and cautious public speaker takes extra effort to ensure that their intent and tone are what they intend them to be.
Jul 31, 2015, 9:05 am
#56
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
It might be difficult, but it happens all the time. If you're going to speak in public, having your comments misunderstood is part of the risk one accepts by appearing and speaking in public. So the wise and cautious public speaker takes extra effort to ensure that their intent and tone are what they intend them to be.
Jul 31, 2015, 9:15 am
#57
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Programs: IAMAW Local 368/HAL 2 Star Mariner
Posts: 740
Since when does telling the truth make one a jerk? Political correctness and fluff are so mainstream these days.
The airline industry is never going to go back to the good old days, bag fees are here to stay, and expect the experience to go down, not up.
-LPDAL
The airline industry is never going to go back to the good old days, bag fees are here to stay, and expect the experience to go down, not up.
-LPDAL
Jul 31, 2015, 9:22 am
#58
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,653
I've never suggested Smisek intends to be insulting or condescending. But that is the way he appears at times, and voicing that opinion isn't an attack on his character.
Jul 31, 2015, 9:27 am
#59
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 15,027
His money comes from people spending $$$ on UA. His stock compensation is only worth the earnings the company generates, which comes from flying passengers around the globe.
Jul 31, 2015, 9:28 am
#60
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
The facts are the facts. No one here is commenting on them because they're undisputed. And while there may be some here "attacking", I think its more observation and commentary on the clumsy leadership style of Mr. Smisek. He implied that his customers are stupid by using the words he did. Discussing whether or not that was his intent is valid.
Years ago at my company, we had a President who, in a local town hall meeting of about 250 employees, basically said that if employees worked extra hard and gave up some short term rewards, he and his leadership team would be greatly rewarded. Jaws dropped...someone on his leadership team tried to ask a question to prompt him to amend what he said...whispers in the room.
I'm positive his intent wasn't to alienate employees. He didn't understand that he said something wrong, or what the impact was. Someone had to explain it to him after the meeting, and I heard that he felt very bad about it. He was just terrible at connecting with people. He lasted less than a year after that meeting, despite being a brilliant business person.
Public figures are subject to critique of their words and character. IMO, it's appropriate to discuss this because it has an impact on the business and the culture at UA.