matrixwalker2012

Say if for some reason, UA were to decide to launch a LAX-GUM nonstop, what plane in UA's fleet would be capable of handling it?

LAX-GUM comes in at 6089 miles, so that would rule out the 77A, and I'm guessing it'd rule out the 764 as well, could the 763 make it or would that be a stretch as well on the westbound leg? Would LAX-GUM only be viable on a 787-8 given that it'd probably be a long and thin route? Would there be enough demand to fill up a 777-200ER?

IAH-OIL-TRASH

I doubt there's demand (passengers and cargo). UA is probably fine with routing pax thru HNL, and trying to get more F-paying passengers into that cabin. A LAX-GUM flight would cannibalize (a little) the mainland to HNL and (more so) HNL-GUM routes.

There's not a lot of options (none currently more convenient than via HNL) to Guam on other airlines, so UA doesn't really have incentive to cannibalize existing routes.

mduell

5300nm still wind, figure about 5700-5800 nm ESAD westbound.

763ER could make it with a full pax load, no cargo.
764 could make it with almost a full pax load and no cargo.
777A could make it but with only about 240 pax and no cargo.

This is just using the Boeing planning docs. I'd guess you'd end up blocking a lot of seats with unfavorable winds, unsuitable diversion points, etc.

mh3265a

There was a lot of discussion about the possibility of an LAX-GUM direct flight before and right around the time of the merger. The prior discussion is found online in the pmCO forum as "LAX-GUM 777 Service"

I'm surprised the 777 couldn't make the LAX-GUM because I thought the distance was roughly the same as LAX-NRT.

Regardless, I think the discussion of this route was put on hold when the realignment of Marines went into limbo. This year's defense bill lifts restrictions on funds and major construction will really get going in the next few years. I think UA was serious about direct service because they had that flight prior to 9/11. Once more contractors get engaged in the build-up I think they'll see the traffic and not to mention traffic from Pendleton. I would expect them to look to the 787 though because of load factors etc....

787fan

787 is nice but isn't UA's config too premium heavy for a route like LAX-GUM ? they need something like AC's sardine can for this route

warreng24

ETOPS forces a slightly non-direct routing for LAX-GUM vs LAX-NRT. So, you can't compare the exact flight distance.

Not too many diversion points over the middle of the Pacific vs the Northern Pacific routing for LAX-NRT.

mh3265a

The current 777-Hawaii config has 32 premium seats whereas the 787-800 has 36 premium seats so, while not super scientific, Guam can handle that type of premium demand

Gotcha. Didn't realize that ETOPS would make it take a longer route because the HNL-GUM route isn't all that weird but makes sense.

kale73

According to GCM, LAX-HNL-GUM is <300 miles more than LAX-GUM direct, but even the direct route appears to be well within the 777's ETOPS-180 certification.

FlyerChrisK

Different 777.

Half of the longest routes in the world are flown by 777s, but the ones used by UA for its Hawaii routes aren't configured to do so (with extra fuel tanks, etc.).

Does that take into account the possibility of having to divert somewhere else if GUM is unavailable (due to a storm, etc.)?

docbert

Saipan is only 130 miles to the north, and has an 8700 ft runway which is plenty for a 777 to land, and plenty enough for a weight-restricted take-off back to GUM.

Rota International is half-way between the two and has 6000ft which might work too if you were really desperate...

Miles Ahead

My last flight GUM-HNL (UA200, on a Tuesday) had 1 purchased, 2 upgraded, and 29 non-rev in that cabin. Not sure that counts as "demand".

why fly

ouch i hope that was not a typical flight.

CALMSP

I would love to see LAX-GUM be linked, then an increase into SE Asia markets within the 2500nm radius.

mh3265a

I flew back in October and the flight from HNL-GUM had only 3 non-revs so I think we can all come up with a variety of different examples. Only UA would have that data.

trust77

I live on GUM and UA's VP of Transatlantic and Transpacific Operations, Jake Cefolia, was here on a "listening" tour back in October. The questions was asked about a non stop specifically between GUM and LAX and his answer was that it was not in the immediate or long term plans, but that they're constantly evaluating route opportunities. I say scrap a non stop GUM to west coast flight for GUM to IAH as a number of travelers for GUM are federal government workers/contractors and even military personnel heading to CONUS for some meeting/conference/training.