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Old Nov 5, 2014, 9:54 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by sinoflyer
(Boldings mine) As far as deceptive advertising, agreed on both points. However, although it may be illegal for California wineries to sell "California" wines that they labeled as "Napa Valley," I'm not sure if there is actually state law or whether it's some industry-enforced standard. Even if it were law, I am less inclined to believe that it would apply to UCs, and especially UCs outside California.
By law, if a specific appellation/vineyard is indicated on the label, 75% of the grapes must be harvest from that particular area. As such, if it says Napa Valley, 75% must come from there. This only applies to the wine label, not the menu from the provider (in this case, UC).

All Napa wines are from California, but not all California wines are from Napa.
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 9:56 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by sinoflyer
(Boldings mine) As far as deceptive advertising, agreed on both points. However, although it may be illegal for California wineries to sell "California" wines that they labeled as "Napa Valley," I'm not sure if there is actually state law or whether it's some industry-enforced standard. Even if it were law, I am less inclined to believe that it would apply to UCs, and especially UCs outside California.
There's a law. It's very clearly illegal to sell wine as "Napa" if it isn't. See Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code 25235 et seq. If UA is doing as OP states, that would constitute a violation of section 25237, which states:
It is unlawful to make any representation that a wine is
produced entirely from grapes grown in the counties mentioned in
Section 25236 unless the representation is true. This section applies
to representations made on labels, advertising matter, letterheads,
invoices, tags, signs, business cards, and all other representations
of any kind whether oral, written, or printed.
Originally Posted by PTahCha
This only applies to the wine label, not the menu from the provider (in this case, UC).
See section 25237, quoted above.
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 11:02 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Bear96
How is it "false advertising"? Is United implying that buying a Club membership guarantees an unlimited supply of that particular type of wine? Or are they serving the California in a Napa Valley bottle and hoping no one notices?

If you go to a restaurant and they don't happen to have every item exactly as is on the menu, is that "false advertising" too?
If you go to a restaurant and order and are charged for the filet but they give you chuck steak, passed off as filet, then is that not false advertising? If you order something on the menu and they inform you they do not have it, then it's a different story. But they're not free to substitute at their pleasure, providing no notice.

The OP's contention is that they are advertising product A on the menu but delivering product B, passed off as A. What is not clear about that?
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 11:11 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
There's a law. It's very clearly illegal to sell wine as "Napa" if it isn't. See Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code 25235 et seq. If UA is doing as OP states, that would constitute a violation of section 25237, which states:
It is unlawful to make any representation that a wine is
produced entirely from grapes grown in the counties mentioned in
Section 25236 unless the representation is true. This section applies
to representations made on labels, advertising matter, letterheads,
invoices, tags, signs, business cards, and all other representations
of any kind whether oral, written, or printed.


See section 25237, quoted above.
The section you are referencing is related to labels and containers for wine, not menu.
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 11:13 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
There's a law. It's very clearly illegal to sell wine as "Napa" if it isn't. See Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code 25235 et seq. If UA is doing as OP states, that would constitute a violation of section 25237, which states:
It is unlawful to make any representation that a wine is
produced entirely from grapes grown in the counties mentioned in
Section 25236 unless the representation is true. This section applies
to representations made on labels, advertising matter, letterheads,
invoices, tags, signs, business cards, and all other representations
of any kind whether oral, written, or printed.
....
Perhaps there is some federal pre-emption of state level wine statues in the Railway Labor Act ?

Or the Airline Deregulation Act ...

Or some other federal loophole legislation which airlines routinely invoke to do what they do ...
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 11:31 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by PTahCha
The section you are referencing is related to labels and containers for wine, not menu.
Suggest you read a little more carefully, specifically:
This section applies to representations made on labels, advertising matter, letterheads, invoices, tags, signs, business cards, and all other representations of any kind whether oral, written, or printed.
Originally Posted by transportprof
Perhaps there is some federal pre-emption of state level wine statues in the Railway Labor Act ?
Sales of alcohol are regulated at the state level (although there are federal labeling guidelines, as well, the feds do not fully occupy the field).
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 11:51 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by aacharya
A true pinotphile wouldn't touch Mark West. Green Valley or Willamette Valley only...with some Anderson Valley for this whino.
Not to hijack the thread, but I'd argue that Marcassin and Aubert from Sonoma Coast would be at the top of any Parker/Wine Spectator list; and Sea Smoke from the central coast would not get dissed either...
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 12:00 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Suggest you read a little more carefully, specifically:
This section applies to representations made on labels, advertising matter, letterheads, invoices, tags, signs, business cards, and all other representations of any kind whether oral, written, or printed.
Applicable only for/by the bottler of said wine. This law was introduced to prevent wine producers to suggest/imply the wine is from a specific region. As an example, a winery with the name "Napa View" (fake name, don't look it up) cannot produce and sell wine from Central Coast. Conversely, Central Coast wine producer cannot talk about the wonders of Sonoma Coast pinot noir in the marketing material that has nothing to do with their wine.

If the shelf talker or menu was produced by Mark West, you may have a point. However, United has nothing to the production or labeling of such wine on the bottle. As such, this law does not apply to them, or any other restaurants who may inadvertently put in the wrong bottling/vintage/typos.
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 12:32 pm
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Originally Posted by PTahCha
Applicable only for/by the bottler of said wine. This law was introduced to prevent wine producers to suggest/imply the wine is from a specific region. As an example, a winery with the name "Napa View" (fake name, don't look it up) cannot produce and sell wine from Central Coast. Conversely, Central Coast wine producer cannot talk about the wonders of Sonoma Coast pinot noir in the marketing material that has nothing to do with their wine.

If the shelf talker or menu was produced by Mark West, you may have a point. However, United has nothing to the production or labeling of such wine on the bottle. As such, this law does not apply to them, or any other restaurants who may inadvertently put in the wrong bottling/vintage/typos.
No, but false advertising is still illegal in general. Saying a wine is from California when it is from Napa Valley is probably OK. Saying a wine is from Napa Valley when it is from somewhere else in California is probably not.
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 1:41 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by TomA
No, but false advertising is still illegal in general. Saying a wine is from California when it is from Napa Valley is probably OK. Saying a wine is from Napa Valley when it is from somewhere else in California is probably not.
Interest to note the Mark West is a central valley winery (and not located in Sonoma County as the name might suggest). But wine labeling is by origin of the grapes, not where processed or bottled. When not 100% (or at least 75%) from a single area, there are separate labeling guidelines.

California Viticultural Areas
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 1:56 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Marin 1K
Not to hijack the thread, but I'd argue that Marcassin and Aubert from Sonoma Coast would be at the top of any Parker/Wine Spectator list; and Sea Smoke from the central coast would not get dissed either...
I want to drink with you one day. I also excluded Phelps, Flowers, Copain, Au Bon Climat, etc. But we're talking general area, not specific wineries. And Marcassin's Chardonnay is really what shines. But I digress..
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 2:12 pm
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Originally Posted by aacharya
I want to drink with you one day. I also excluded Phelps, Flowers, Copain, Au Bon Climat, etc. But we're talking general area, not specific wineries. And Marcassin's Chardonnay is really what shines. But I digress..
There's also Peay, Kistler, Paul Hobbs, Pahlmeyer, and a bunch of other very good wineries that make Sonoma wines. For that matter, my favorite place to stay in the wine country is Kenwood Inn in Sonoma, over any of the hotels in Napa Valley.


Back to the original point, if a winery does two different bottlings, one a "California" and one a "Napa Valley", or one a "Napa Valley" and one a specific vineyard designate, the menu needs to be accurate. To use an extreme example, 2009 Heitz Martha's Vineyard Cabernet goes for $225 a bottle from the winery, while the 2009 Heitz Napa Valley Cabernet is $49. Both are good, but if I ordered Martha's Vineyard and got the Napa Valley instead I'd be seriously pissed.

Bob
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 2:36 pm
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 2:44 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Bear96
How is it "false advertising"? Is United implying that buying a Club membership guarantees an unlimited supply of that particular type of wine? Or are they serving the California in a Napa Valley bottle and hoping no one notices?

If you go to a restaurant and they don't happen to have every item exactly as is on the menu, is that "false advertising" too?
This isn't the free plonk.
There is a placard displaying a particular varietal along with a price.
The serve you something different without saying so, and then charge you for it.

That's false advertising. Period.
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Old Nov 5, 2014, 4:14 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by PTahCha
The section you are referencing is related to labels and containers for wine, not menu.
How about Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code 17200 et seq., the universal law for pretty much everything?

Originally Posted by transportprof
Perhaps there is some federal pre-emption of state level wine statues in the Railway Labor Act ?

Or the Airline Deregulation Act ...

Or some other federal loophole legislation which airlines routinely invoke to do what they do ...
I do believe that it is preempted by ADA, as it is related to prices and services of an airlines.

I guess you can file a DOT complaint.
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