United closing Seattle FA base in January 2015
Oct 17, 2014, 6:36 pm
#46
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United is outsourcing ground ops at an alarming rate.
I can't recall which are the golden stations that were guaranteed mainline ground staff under the last contract, but anyone not on that list should assume it is just a matter of time.
Oct 18, 2014, 6:12 pm
#47
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Goodbye to the SEA FA base
This morning's Seattle Times has an item reporting that UA will close its
SEA flight attendant base. This is very sad news--a lot of the SEA regulars have been upholding the old standards of service and I know that some of them have family situations that will make commuting to SFO or DEN or ORD or?? very difficult. On a recent SEA-ORD flight one of the SEA regulars told me that the board was down to 240 whereas it had been over 600 a few years ago. The retreat of UA from the Pacific Northwest seems to be unstoppable. I think the company wants to buy out many of the FAs--newer hires would be cheaper and we've got to keep cutting so that shareholder values may be enhanced...or words to that effect.
Flyer 420
in Madison
SEA flight attendant base. This is very sad news--a lot of the SEA regulars have been upholding the old standards of service and I know that some of them have family situations that will make commuting to SFO or DEN or ORD or?? very difficult. On a recent SEA-ORD flight one of the SEA regulars told me that the board was down to 240 whereas it had been over 600 a few years ago. The retreat of UA from the Pacific Northwest seems to be unstoppable. I think the company wants to buy out many of the FAs--newer hires would be cheaper and we've got to keep cutting so that shareholder values may be enhanced...or words to that effect.
Flyer 420
in Madison
Oct 18, 2014, 6:13 pm
#48
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This morning's Seattle Times has an item reporting that UA will close its
SEA flight attendant base. This is very sad news--a lot of the SEA regulars have been upholding the old standards of service and I know that some of them have family situations that will make commuting to SFO or DEN or ORD or?? very difficult. On a recent SEA-ORD flight one of the SEA regulars told me that the board was down to 240 whereas it had been over 600 a few years ago. The retreat of UA from the Pacific Northwest seems to be unstoppable. I think the company wants to buy out many of the FAs--newer hires would be cheaper and we've got to keep cutting so that shareholder values may be enhanced...or words to that effect.
Flyer 420
in Madison
SEA flight attendant base. This is very sad news--a lot of the SEA regulars have been upholding the old standards of service and I know that some of them have family situations that will make commuting to SFO or DEN or ORD or?? very difficult. On a recent SEA-ORD flight one of the SEA regulars told me that the board was down to 240 whereas it had been over 600 a few years ago. The retreat of UA from the Pacific Northwest seems to be unstoppable. I think the company wants to buy out many of the FAs--newer hires would be cheaper and we've got to keep cutting so that shareholder values may be enhanced...or words to that effect.
Flyer 420
in Madison
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ry-2015-a.html
Also the SEA based FAs who decide to stay with the company are being displaced to SFO.
Last edited by JOSECONLSCREW28; Oct 18, 2014 at 6:20 pm
Oct 19, 2014, 12:04 am
#49
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I'm struggling with m&a 101. Pre merger UA or CO operated X(UA)+Y(CO) routes for A+B profit(relative to industry). Post merger it looks like .75(X+Y) + Z(new routes) routes for less than former A+B profit(relative to industry).
Basically they are shrinking and removing routes that may or may not have been profitable. This has resulted in less total profit share (relative to industry) than the two former airlines made separately.
Would UA be even less profitable if they did not cut routes?
Basically they are shrinking and removing routes that may or may not have been profitable. This has resulted in less total profit share (relative to industry) than the two former airlines made separately.
Would UA be even less profitable if they did not cut routes?
This is a bit overly simplistic. Assuming the product and service remained static, then yes, it would be puzzling. But they didn't. And in some cases, competition went in the other direction by improving product and service.
What UA did was tinker with the routes (as you point out above), as well as downgraded the product, as well as downgraded customer service, and the loyalty program as well.
Each tinkering with the formula results in an additional adjustment to the numbers which is not accounted for in the above model.
Oct 28, 2014, 3:41 pm
#50
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Does this actually work?
Is the profit/share for Delta greater than the average of the profit/share of Delta + Northwest as separate entities? The airline industry is up and down over time so some difficult stats will need to be done.
Isn't the overall US airline capacity governed more by the economy/demand/infrastructure than the # of legacy airlines?
When UA cuts flights, some of the abandoned capacity will be absorbed by growth at VX,B6,DL, etc. What is the point of merging to build economies of scale, then shrinking? Would a more prudent option have been for both pmCO and pmUA to have grown slowly as separate airlines instead of giving up collective market share to competitors post merger? If pmCO and pmUA had each grown by 25% independently, then they would each have greater "synergies" from better route networks and size.
Basically we have 0.75(pmUA + pmCO) right now. Why not skip the merger and have 1.25UA + 1.25CO? What was the convincing argument that 0.75(pmUA + pmCO) would generate better profit/share than the sum of 1.25UA + 1.25CO as separate entities? I don't need the math, just looking for an MBA-type to verify that the potential benefits are worth the extreme effort.
Is the profit/share for Delta greater than the average of the profit/share of Delta + Northwest as separate entities? The airline industry is up and down over time so some difficult stats will need to be done.
Isn't the overall US airline capacity governed more by the economy/demand/infrastructure than the # of legacy airlines?
When UA cuts flights, some of the abandoned capacity will be absorbed by growth at VX,B6,DL, etc. What is the point of merging to build economies of scale, then shrinking? Would a more prudent option have been for both pmCO and pmUA to have grown slowly as separate airlines instead of giving up collective market share to competitors post merger? If pmCO and pmUA had each grown by 25% independently, then they would each have greater "synergies" from better route networks and size.
Basically we have 0.75(pmUA + pmCO) right now. Why not skip the merger and have 1.25UA + 1.25CO? What was the convincing argument that 0.75(pmUA + pmCO) would generate better profit/share than the sum of 1.25UA + 1.25CO as separate entities? I don't need the math, just looking for an MBA-type to verify that the potential benefits are worth the extreme effort.
Dec 4, 2014, 3:11 pm
#51
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United Airlines has turned down a union proposal to keep its Seattle flight-attendant base open at least through June and has issued warning notices allowing it to lay off staff at the end of January.
Diane Tucker, president of the unit of the Assocation of Flight Attendants (AFA) union representing United’s Seattle-based crews, said 157 members face layoff if they don’t agree to either relocate or to commute to work out of San Francisco.
That’s excluding more than 100 flight attendants who have accepted a company buyout offer of $100,000, Tucker said.
Diane Tucker, president of the unit of the Assocation of Flight Attendants (AFA) union representing United’s Seattle-based crews, said 157 members face layoff if they don’t agree to either relocate or to commute to work out of San Francisco.
That’s excluding more than 100 flight attendants who have accepted a company buyout offer of $100,000, Tucker said.
Not sure commuting to/from SFO would work when we have weather issues down here. You almost need to fly down the day before to be safe. Surely a lot of risk for F/A's that try the commuting route.
Dec 4, 2014, 3:29 pm
#53
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Every airline does this. But if you think that United is providing them confirmed space to commute from SEA-SFO, that's incorrect. There are thousands of FAs that live in a city other than where they're based and have to get themselves to their base on their own time and own way in order to make the start of a trip.
Dec 4, 2014, 10:37 pm
#54
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United closing Seattle FA base in January 2015
The majority of pilots and flight attendants get on an airplane to go to their crew base to fly their trips. The airline doesn't have any say in whether we chose to do this or not, and if they close a crew base, they don't have any say as to whether we want to relocate, commute, or quit.
It's a way of life for most, some by choice, some out of necessity. I live and fly out of a base that has no wide-body planes. It's my choice to stay on the narrow-body plane I fly, but there are plenty of pilots junior to me commuting to fly bigger planes.
Ya can't have it all.
FAB
It's a way of life for most, some by choice, some out of necessity. I live and fly out of a base that has no wide-body planes. It's my choice to stay on the narrow-body plane I fly, but there are plenty of pilots junior to me commuting to fly bigger planes.
Ya can't have it all.
FAB
Dec 5, 2014, 7:30 am
#55
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When UA cuts flights, some of the abandoned capacity will be absorbed by growth at VX,B6,DL, etc. What is the point of merging to build economies of scale, then shrinking? Would a more prudent option have been for both pmCO and pmUA to have grown slowly as separate airlines instead of giving up collective market share to competitors post merger? If pmCO and pmUA had each grown by 25% independently, then they would each have greater "synergies" from better route networks and size.
For all we know, the SEA routes may be profitable, but not as profitable as some other routes. When faced with limited aircraft to fly the routes, they have to make these sorts of decisions.
Further, the SEA base is sUA, which means the work rules are less favorable to the company. That, and since they company wants to stack the deck, if you will, in terms of negotiations, the more difficult they can make life for the sUAers, the better for them. So there is some perceived long-term value to the company to take actions like this as well.
Dec 8, 2014, 6:27 pm
#56
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Talked to a few SEA based flight attendants on my recent flights, and two seem to want to take the severance package and avoid the move. January 30th I think was what they told me was their last. Seems they have a lot of seniority in UA.
As a passenger, flight options have also diminished. Smaller aircrafts and less frequencies of flights have become a reality.... next will be right sizing SEA. Currently too many UA gates are under-utilized. I wonder how long SEA United Club will last. I'm betting closure of United Club is not too far from radar.
I thought I read somewhere, UA became an international carrier with their flights from SEA/PDX to NRT in 1983?
Jiburi
As a passenger, flight options have also diminished. Smaller aircrafts and less frequencies of flights have become a reality.... next will be right sizing SEA. Currently too many UA gates are under-utilized. I wonder how long SEA United Club will last. I'm betting closure of United Club is not too far from radar.
I thought I read somewhere, UA became an international carrier with their flights from SEA/PDX to NRT in 1983?
Jiburi
Last edited by jiburi; Dec 8, 2014 at 6:39 pm
Dec 8, 2014, 6:35 pm
#57
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Talked to a few SEA based flight attendants on my recent flights, and two seem to want to take the severance package and avoid the move. January 30th I think was what they told me was their last. Seems they have a lot of seniority in UA.
As a passenger, flight options have also diminished. Smaller aircrafts and less frequencies of flights have become a reality.... next will be right sizing SEA. Currently too many UA gates are under-utilized. I wonder how long SEA United Club will last. I'm betting closure of United Club is not too far from radar.
Jiburi
As a passenger, flight options have also diminished. Smaller aircrafts and less frequencies of flights have become a reality.... next will be right sizing SEA. Currently too many UA gates are under-utilized. I wonder how long SEA United Club will last. I'm betting closure of United Club is not too far from radar.
Jiburi
Dec 8, 2014, 8:40 pm
#58
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Jan 7, 2015, 11:45 am
#59
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SEA Pilot Base is Also Closed Effective Today
It's official in March, but today is the final day for pilots to begin/end their trips at SEA according to this article in the Seattle Times:
http://seattletimes.com/html/busines...seatacxml.html
They're also closing the employee offices/lounges at SEA that the SEA based crews used
The United Club is not impacted by this.
http://seattletimes.com/html/busines...seatacxml.html
They're also closing the employee offices/lounges at SEA that the SEA based crews used
The United Club is not impacted by this.
Last edited by SEA1K4EVR; Jan 7, 2015 at 11:50 am