Jun 10, 2014, 5:09 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Earning miles on United flights
Spend-based mileage (RDM) earning for all UA metal flights effective March 1, 2015.
Redeemable Miles (RDM) changes highlights:
Fare multipliers based on Premier status:
For example, a 1K would earn 1100 miles for a $120 (assuming $20 in taxes/fees) ticket while a Silver would earn 700 miles for the same ticket.
As there is a maximum number of miles per ticket earned - this disincentives purchasing any ticket (excluding government taxes and fees) over the following:
A way to avoid this is booking one-ways if the fare rules permit.
Premier Qualifying Miles (PQM) are not affected by this change.
Announcement Site
Post 57: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23008349-post57.html
Answered Questions:
Spend-based mileage (RDM) earning for all UA metal flights effective March 1, 2015.
Redeemable Miles (RDM) changes highlights:
- Miles earned will now be based on the ticket price instead of the number of miles flown (see partner flights on non-016 tickets exception )
- Ticket price is defined as base fare plus carrier-imposed surcharges (same as PQDs)
- Class of service bonuses have been discontinued (e.g. X% more on A fares).
- There is a limit of 75,000 miles earned per ticket (see below for spending limits by status)
- UA flights regardless of ticket stock will use the ticket price to determine RDMs
- Partner flight on 016 ticket stock will use the ticket price to determine RDMs
- Partner flights on non-016 ticket stock will use a flight mileage-based system to determine RDMs with a fare class multiplier (see the partner page for detials
- Speciality / Bulk tickets with PQDs will use a flight mileage-based system to determine RDMs with a fare class multiplier, see Specialty tickets
Fare multipliers based on Premier status:
- x5 General Members
- x7 Silver
- x8 Gold
- x9 Plat
- x11 1K/GS
For example, a 1K would earn 1100 miles for a $120 (assuming $20 in taxes/fees) ticket while a Silver would earn 700 miles for the same ticket.
As there is a maximum number of miles per ticket earned - this disincentives purchasing any ticket (excluding government taxes and fees) over the following:
- $6818.18 for 1K/GS
- $8333.33 for Platinum
- $9375.00 for Gold
- $10714.28 for Silver
- $15000.00 for General Members
A way to avoid this is booking one-ways if the fare rules permit.
Premier Qualifying Miles (PQM) are not affected by this change.
www.mileageplusupdates.com
There is a tool on the site that allow you to enter how much you spent on a ticket along your premier status in order to calculate how many miles you will earn under the new system. The tool is aware of the miles per ticket limit.
There is a FAQ here: http://mileageplusupdates.com/faq.html
Relevant UA Insider posts:There is a tool on the site that allow you to enter how much you spent on a ticket along your premier status in order to calculate how many miles you will earn under the new system. The tool is aware of the miles per ticket limit.
There is a FAQ here: http://mileageplusupdates.com/faq.html
Post 57: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23008349-post57.html
Hi everyone,
Today were announcing changes to how MileagePlus members will earn award miles in 2015. Weve posted complete details and a FAQ on united.com, but I wanted to share an excerpt of the key points with you directly:
As of March 1, 2015, the award miles you earn on most United and United Express tickets will be based on your ticket price (that is, base fare plus carrier-imposed surcharges) and your MileagePlus status, instead of the distance you travel. The new criteria for earning award miles will look like this:
<portion removed for brevity>
The changes to earning award miles will apply to all MileagePlus members worldwide, and will be based on status at the time of flight on or after March 1, 2015. These changes will not affect the qualification requirements for 2015 Premier status. PQM and PQS will still be based on the number of paid flight miles traveled and the fare purchased. And where applicable, PQD will still be determined by the base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges.
Today were announcing changes to how MileagePlus members will earn award miles in 2015. Weve posted complete details and a FAQ on united.com, but I wanted to share an excerpt of the key points with you directly:
As of March 1, 2015, the award miles you earn on most United and United Express tickets will be based on your ticket price (that is, base fare plus carrier-imposed surcharges) and your MileagePlus status, instead of the distance you travel. The new criteria for earning award miles will look like this:
<portion removed for brevity>
The changes to earning award miles will apply to all MileagePlus members worldwide, and will be based on status at the time of flight on or after March 1, 2015. These changes will not affect the qualification requirements for 2015 Premier status. PQM and PQS will still be based on the number of paid flight miles traveled and the fare purchased. And where applicable, PQD will still be determined by the base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges.
Class of service bonuses have been discontinued under the new system. There is already an adjustment for 1K over general members.
For tickets that will earn award miles based on ticket price, the class-of-service bonus and Premier bonus will be included in the number of award miles you earn per dollar. Basically COS has been removed.
E-mail received by GS lists 1K and GS together.
2015 MileagePlus Change - RDMs Will Be Calculated by Spend, Not Distance
Jun 10, 2014, 12:31 pm
#526
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 83
Understandable. What i hate is what a bad rep the FT community gets among the airline industry. They call us a bunch of whiners. Sure we have plenty of legit concerns, but is this really one? For the 50,000th time, Most airlines in the world are going revenue based. UA doing the same thing is not the end of the world or airline flying. People are only upset because they are getting less free stuff, which tbh is kind of selifsh.
The people who are paying more are getting more. Obviously with any change there will be winners and lowers. But this is the reality of the airline industry. A loyalty program designed in the 1980s is not going to be able to sustain its model in today's industry.
And yeah i probably would never spend $12k on a subpar business product either; i only used that to illustrate the example that premium pax who pay (and yes they do exist on UA) will stand to earn a lot more from this, and why shouldn't they? they are giving the airline a lot of $$ (well deserved or non deserved).
Everyone loves UDU, but i hate them. it devalues the product/quality of first class. UA has no incentive to improve first class when the majority of people sitting there didn't pay for it. Look at AA first class, they still use 500 mile ecerts except for their EXP members, and the quality there is so much better. And at $30 for a 500 ecert, i dont mind paying $250 to upgrade LAX-JFK. Heck, its much better than paying whatever outrageous buy-ups UA offers.
i was using an example. Even if its not a Z/P fare, using the 175% redemption, you'd still get less miles.
Obviously LAX-SYD is just one example.
NYC-LHR is another example of a route that is historically high in price and low in RDM. Under the new scheme, many will benefit (general members probably wont), but business travelers who spend a lot probably will. And NYC-LHR is one of the biggest business markets out there.
The people who are paying more are getting more. Obviously with any change there will be winners and lowers. But this is the reality of the airline industry. A loyalty program designed in the 1980s is not going to be able to sustain its model in today's industry.
And yeah i probably would never spend $12k on a subpar business product either; i only used that to illustrate the example that premium pax who pay (and yes they do exist on UA) will stand to earn a lot more from this, and why shouldn't they? they are giving the airline a lot of $$ (well deserved or non deserved).
Everyone loves UDU, but i hate them. it devalues the product/quality of first class. UA has no incentive to improve first class when the majority of people sitting there didn't pay for it. Look at AA first class, they still use 500 mile ecerts except for their EXP members, and the quality there is so much better. And at $30 for a 500 ecert, i dont mind paying $250 to upgrade LAX-JFK. Heck, its much better than paying whatever outrageous buy-ups UA offers.
i was using an example. Even if its not a Z/P fare, using the 175% redemption, you'd still get less miles.
Obviously LAX-SYD is just one example.
NYC-LHR is another example of a route that is historically high in price and low in RDM. Under the new scheme, many will benefit (general members probably wont), but business travelers who spend a lot probably will. And NYC-LHR is one of the biggest business markets out there.
It boils down to thinking that the system is 'fair' and it seems that this change makes a lot of people think it's not. Oh and I'm not naive enough to think it has to be fair either
Jun 10, 2014, 12:34 pm
#527
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: CHS
Programs: UA ex-1k, now Gold bumped up from Silver
Posts: 155
Now if they bump the necessary PQD spend to $20k for 1k status next year, it would force us to buy a couple more C/D/J/Z/P fares than we do now. Lately when we fly to Latin America or Europe we have been flying on Z and P fares.
But frankly benefits should correlate with spend. And miles do not accurately reflect spend. Spend accurately reflects spend.
Now I do wish that the multiplier was better for 1ks vs. lower tiers.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:35 pm
#528
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Everywhere you wanna be
Programs: AA EP | UA 1K
Posts: 1,657
Yeah agree with both of you. We rarely redeem RDM (so we have a lot in the bank). GPUs are the greatest benefit of the program for us since for the foreseeable future we will be flying three TPACs a year, and $2k each on V or W fares is a lot better than $7k each.
Now if they bump the necessary PQD spend to $20k for 1k status next year, it would force us to buy a couple more C/D/J/Z/P fares than we do now. Lately when we fly to Latin America or Europe we have been flying on Z and P fares.
But frankly benefits should correlate with spend. And miles do not accurately reflect spend. Spend accurately reflects spend.
Now I do wish that the multiplier was better for 1ks vs. lower tiers.
Now if they bump the necessary PQD spend to $20k for 1k status next year, it would force us to buy a couple more C/D/J/Z/P fares than we do now. Lately when we fly to Latin America or Europe we have been flying on Z and P fares.
But frankly benefits should correlate with spend. And miles do not accurately reflect spend. Spend accurately reflects spend.
Now I do wish that the multiplier was better for 1ks vs. lower tiers.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:36 pm
#529
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NY
Programs: AA Plat Pro, KrisFlyer Elite Gold
Posts: 578
i know FT is somewhat of an echo chamber but after this move what customers will they have left other than those that couldn't care less about earning miles, who would just as soon fly WN given the Y product is about the same.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:38 pm
#530
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: LAS
Posts: 175
This would have actually been a positive change for me since I mostly fly paid J/F, though I agree with the majority that there's no way this will end well for UA as a whole.
It's too bad that the generally deplorable state of UA's product (80%) and the other recent MP deval re *A partners (20%) have already driven me almost solely to DL for my domestic needs (with VX and B6 filling the gaps) and to EK for my international travels.
It's too bad that the generally deplorable state of UA's product (80%) and the other recent MP deval re *A partners (20%) have already driven me almost solely to DL for my domestic needs (with VX and B6 filling the gaps) and to EK for my international travels.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:39 pm
#531
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,724
I don't trudge out to the airport over and over because flying is fun. Probably half my travel is discretionary / diplomatic, but I do it because there's a chance to take my wife to Europe or Australia in F or J down the road. When the prospects for such payoffs dip below a certain probability, I might as well stay home and live longer.
In most cases flying is not like a day at the spa, it's an afternoon at Costco buying tires. Not a get-to-do, a gotta-do.
For the people in this thread who are writing off all the Premier Silvers and Golds and "kettles", I don't think you understand that United needs customers like that. You can't survive just going after people who spend lots of money, you have to also earn the loyalty of the mid-range spenders.
DL and UA are not the same. Good airline + bad FF program beats bad airline + bad FF program.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:40 pm
#532
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,857
If Untied was doing this along with investing in their product things would be different but they aren't. They taking on planes like the E75 with no Wifi, cutting capacity in places like LAX and CLE and retrofitting existing aircraft to be more uncomfortable in coach. There are fewer and fewer reasons to fly UA and more and more reasons to fly other airlines.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:41 pm
#533
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Airline nobody. Sad!
Posts: 26,062
Of course. I LOVE AA catering. 500000x better than anything UA has.
A] the 77W is better. I flew C LAX-LHR. Best thing ever. I love wifi that actually works.
b] A321T is 5000x better than UA's aged 757s that doesn't even have first class.
However, AA's old product in my opinion still sucks vs what UA has. All the 737NG's ive been on do not have IFE/Wifi while all the UA ones i've been on have. I know its a hit and miss and they're still installed.
c] i was on a pre-retrofit 772 MIA-LHR that was 2-5-2 in coach, terrible. Old IFE, etc. Compared to UA's retrofit 772s, UA wins on that one.
d] yes AA's A320s/A321s/A319s are better than UA's.
Once AA retires all their S80s, they will truly have a domestic product that has no rival, except maybe DL (but i hate leather seats). Those 757s are in real need of retrofits too.
A] the 77W is better. I flew C LAX-LHR. Best thing ever. I love wifi that actually works.
b] A321T is 5000x better than UA's aged 757s that doesn't even have first class.
However, AA's old product in my opinion still sucks vs what UA has. All the 737NG's ive been on do not have IFE/Wifi while all the UA ones i've been on have. I know its a hit and miss and they're still installed.
c] i was on a pre-retrofit 772 MIA-LHR that was 2-5-2 in coach, terrible. Old IFE, etc. Compared to UA's retrofit 772s, UA wins on that one.
d] yes AA's A320s/A321s/A319s are better than UA's.
Once AA retires all their S80s, they will truly have a domestic product that has no rival, except maybe DL (but i hate leather seats). Those 757s are in real need of retrofits too.
Fortunately, I've never flown the 772 in Y (due to SWUs) so I can't comment. But that is where I say it is better, I'm unlikely to fly 772 Y as an EXP right now due to the SWUs, and with UA there are fewer and require a higher fare to get.
AA 763 as is, it isn't great, I agree there. I also hope all of the S80s get retired quick. Bye bye old rattle traps!
The 757s do need retrofits but I doubt they will get them. AA still has 757s out there with the Eisenhower F
. Those will take longer to dump. But, in two years, AA will be well ahead of UA overall.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:41 pm
#534
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: UA Platinum Marriott Platinum
Posts: 276
Any waiver for people who have a presidential plus card if they spend a certain amount per year?
Jun 10, 2014, 12:42 pm
#535
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NY
Programs: AA Plat Pro, KrisFlyer Elite Gold
Posts: 578
Jun 10, 2014, 12:42 pm
#536
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,857
Knock the MD-80s all you want, but they're quiet in First, they have 2 seat pairs in coach and all have wifi. That's good enough for me.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:44 pm
#537
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,442
You keep repeating that about Delta but you fail to realize that the reason they are making money has little, if anything, to do with their FFP. Skymiles is considered among the worst frequent flyer programs and Delta makes money despite it not because of it.
If Untied was doing this along with investing in their product things would be different but they aren't. They taking on planes like the E75 with no Wifi, cutting capacity in places like LAX and CLE and retrofitting existing aircraft to be more uncomfortable in coach. There are fewer and fewer reasons to fly UA and more and more reasons to fly other airlines.
If Untied was doing this along with investing in their product things would be different but they aren't. They taking on planes like the E75 with no Wifi, cutting capacity in places like LAX and CLE and retrofitting existing aircraft to be more uncomfortable in coach. There are fewer and fewer reasons to fly UA and more and more reasons to fly other airlines.
I kid, I kid.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:45 pm
#538
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,597
Yeah agree with both of you. We rarely redeem RDM (so we have a lot in the bank). GPUs are the greatest benefit of the program for us since for the foreseeable future we will be flying three TPACs a year, and $2k each on V or W fares is a lot better than $7k each.
Now if they bump the necessary PQD spend to $20k for 1k status next year, it would force us to buy a couple more C/D/J/Z/P fares than we do now. Lately when we fly to Latin America or Europe we have been flying on Z and P fares.
But frankly benefits should correlate with spend. And miles do not accurately reflect spend. Spend accurately reflects spend.
Now I do wish that the multiplier was better for 1ks vs. lower tiers.
Now if they bump the necessary PQD spend to $20k for 1k status next year, it would force us to buy a couple more C/D/J/Z/P fares than we do now. Lately when we fly to Latin America or Europe we have been flying on Z and P fares.
But frankly benefits should correlate with spend. And miles do not accurately reflect spend. Spend accurately reflects spend.
Now I do wish that the multiplier was better for 1ks vs. lower tiers.
So in the end your benefits are reduced.
I just bought a W fare to PRG and used my GPUs to save about 50%. But under the new scheme I'd earn fewer RDM. For me, no problem. But for a platinum, it might be a simple decision to fly LH (just an example, I know it's JV revenue).
I just think it's a bad decision for an airline that is losing badly to the competition, and I'm afraid it's going to result in more cost cutting to benefits you and I use.
Jun 10, 2014, 12:48 pm
#540
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: UA gold; WN A; PC plat; Marriott Gold
Posts: 425
The devaluation is pretty simple. I think I saw another poster mention it. As a 1K, if you spend less than 20CPM, you will be earning less RDM.
My spend is fairly consistently around 10CPM and I do right around 100K PQM. Today I spend $10k to fly 100K PQM and receive 200K RDM. Next year that would only get me $10K*11 = 110K RDM, a 45% devaluation. Most of my colleagues who travel for business are around 10-15CPM.
My spend is fairly consistently around 10CPM and I do right around 100K PQM. Today I spend $10k to fly 100K PQM and receive 200K RDM. Next year that would only get me $10K*11 = 110K RDM, a 45% devaluation. Most of my colleagues who travel for business are around 10-15CPM.