RNE

But, again, I ask don't you have to pay for ChoiceSeats on US?

JNelson113

Here's how my recent flight broke down:
IAH-SNA on United was nonstop and about $500+
IAH-SNA on USAir, connecting in PHX, was about $200

Choice seats were something like $35 for the IAH-PHX leg and $25 for the PHX-LAX. I didn't bother as I'm not particularly tall. I value E+, but not enough to pay for it outside of TPAC, TATL, or TCON. As of 3/1 I'm probably not going to drive to AUS anymore to fly from there and get E+ and United Miles.

I fly entirely on my own dime so cost matters a lot to me. Under the current plan, the miles I earn make various inconveniences tolerable; after 3/1, I'll just have to adjust to a new set of inconveniences. :-) I'll still fly United when it makes sense to do so, but I won't spend a lot more and I won't go way out of my way when another option is easier.

CMK10

Choice Seats are worthless but yes, you do have to pay for them. However, at check-in exit row seats on US open up for free. I have no status but have been in exit rows on over half of my US flights this year @:-)

donho00

I have been slowly reading all the posts,
I just finished a call with the 1k line to ask about this and I dont think your math is correct with the new system

I will use your miles/trip example from your upcoming trip:
I dont know all the FT abbreviations, so I will just spell them out
Before March, you would receive
27000 Premier Miles for that flight
and a 100% bonus match of 27000 miles
Plus 1300 more miles using your Chase CC
55300 total

After March:
27000 Premier Miles
and 14300 Bonus miles
Plus 1300 more miles using your Chase CC
42600 total


Premier Miles will still be miles flown. Only change is the bonus miles

this is what the 1k line told me. Correct me if I am wrong

WineCountryUA

For post March 2015 that is bogus info you were given

from UA 2015 Program FAQs is the info for UA operated flights. For partner operatored flights it may be miles flown with a percentage factor based on fare. But there is time for that to change.

xliioper

Actually, if it's partner operated, but UA ticketed, it will also be fare based earnings.

You are incorrect. The 27000 Premier miles are status miles only. They do not also count towards redeemable award miles.

Tchiowa

Difference between PQM and RDM. Premier Qualifying Miles, the miles you get credit to move you to a high status, your calculations are correct. Redeemable Miles, the miles you use to get free upgrades, flights, etc., the poster you responded to has it right. He's 1k so he gets ticket cost X 11. If the ticket cost $1,300 he gets 14,300 RDM.

This calculator shows you the Redeemable Miles you get: http://mileageplusupdates.com/

And I think that one sentence sums up everything. It is no longer a reward for BIS, it's a reward for spending money. And while BIS is how UA gets money, since it's not 1 butt = 1 butt then it only makes sense that they differentiate. Profit come from spend, not BIS.

Silver Fox

So, I may have missed something fundamental here, is that true? I did not see that documented but freely admit I may have missed it. For a flight where I get, for example, 5368 PQM with, for example, 5500 award miles, then the PQM of 5368 no longer count as redeemable miles after March 2015, and I will only get 5500 miles to redeem?

GBman

Yes.

GBman

I think this does sum up the difference – a shift from reward to rebate.

But I am among those who think this is utter business folly. Global Services already rewards spend (by someone) and incentives for contracts or high spenders may generate business (though I think product quality is the best winning [non-taxable] incentive here).

However, flyers – business or personal – are not robots (yet). We are not Fedex packages which magically get from Point A to Point B in exchange for money. We are actually people who fly BIS. We influence what we do with our bodies and minds.

You can argue that Premier status is still being rewarded/determined this way – and that may make sense, if it stays that way in this very complicated system. But that only works if the status means a lot. If the upgrade rate falls near to zero and the IRROPS service isn't great, and the 1K call line isn't real, and so on, then 'status' ceases to be much of an incentive.

So that leaves us with RDM. A reward of free flights is less of an incentive to a price-insensitive (high-spending/OPM) customer and more of one for a person who spends week-in/week-out flying BIS for work and then wants something nice (a free flight or guaranteed upgrade on vacation) at the end of it.

Clearly what is being attempted is a wholesale shift in incentives.

A huge array of the 'incentives' UA management have put in place are perverse incentives. High-spenders are capped in RDM; high-frequency-flyers are pipped for upgrades by TOD flyers; mainline craft are replaced by RJs on routes flown by competitors' bigger planes; employees are given worse work tools and permitted/encouraged to maintain loyalty to former companies ... and on and on.

They. Just. Don't. Get. It.

Silver Fox

I don't know what to type here. I really didn't know it was as bad as this. I wasn't going to switch airlines but might consider it now. Typically I fly LHR-SFO-LHR and I don't like Virgin unless its PE which my company will not pay for, and I detest BA and T5 is a joke gone wrong - but with an AA status match I might think about it. Food for thought.

GBman

I am in a very similar position, and it is miserable. Our views about BA and T5 are identical. (The new T2 unfortunately reminds me too much of T5 for my liking.) But given UA's new programme I'm making the switch and have already moved most second-half travel away from UA. In the choice of miseries, UA has tipped the balance and I am choosing the less-miserable options, including making non-stops one-stop flights which allow flying on AA itself where I want to avoid BA codeshares. I rationalise that the AA one-stop is not that different from having to use BA hardstands and buses in a brand-new terminal and I get to fly a preferred carrier.

Commiserations.

AAExPlat

Yes. Profit is better than BIS, but profit does not equal volume, and volume is an important part of the airline industry. Lose volume, and you lose more pax to other airlines due to a shrinking network.

And if volume matters, the new program no longer incentivizes it, and that will have unintended consequences. And not for the better for the airlines IMO.

^

emcampbe

I think you are completely misinterpreting this and the answer you got. RDM and PQM were always different buckets and separate from each other.

Start with this: PQM never counted as RDM (or vice versa). Absolutely never. However, PQM used to essentially represent the same amount of RDM you would also get (excluding bonuses). So that's where the change lies - those base numbers won't be equal.

Take your example from your previous post talking about a flight earning 5368 miles. For context, that would be a flight of 5368 miles, and let's say it was in a mid-tier economy fare class (so no fare bonus) that cost $564 in fare/international surcharge. To start off easy, let's also for the moment assume the calculation is for a general member.

Today, that GM on the 5368 mile flight would earn 5368 RDM and 5368 PQM. If they flew that same flight (ua-operated) in March 2015, they would earn 5368 PQM and 2820 RDM ($564 x 5).

Your profile shows a 1K, so the example could be branched out to that status. Today, that flight would earn you 5368 PQM and 10,736 RDM (5368 + 100% bonus). In March 2015, assuming you kept that status, the flight would earn 5368 PQM and additionally 6204 RDM ($564 x 11).

The relationship between PQM and RDM isn't really changing - they have always been separate. Though at the fare level I put in (just picked a number) you'd earn about 58% of RDM in the future compared to today and the same amount of PQM. On the other hand, the RDM bonus you get in the new system will actually be higher - today a 1K earns a 100% bonus over the base - now that is 120%.

Superguy

If miles are the only incentive. Problem is UA is giving a lot of disincentives to fly them. Aside from the continuous cuts (including the most recent ones), you have the *A redemption inflation. You'll need those higher redemptions just to be able to get what you used to take.

I don't think that's entirely true.

While people may be price sensitive, many have also wised up to the whole value proposition. If airline X charges a base fare of $200, but ends up forcing another $150 in fees for baggage, etc, then airline Y can still win out if it includes those services at $300. Throw in some other perks like a good mileage program and it can sweeten the deal. Will it always? Of course not, but it's not to say that the FFP has no value - even if it's getting enough points to take a trip to see grandma.

The problem is, these are the folks in the middle of the curve that UA needs to the most. There are more of these folks than the HVFs. UA can lose some HVFs and still be ok. Fire these guys and UA has some serious problems.

I also don't get the mantra that AA is automatically going to match UA and DL in FFP changes. AA to date hasn't, in fact, it's been heavily recruiting from UA and DL due to their changes. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to recruit people for a couple years and then piss them off. AAdvantage is a competitive tool to use to recruit and keep people. While both AA and DL have been improving their products, DL's gutted an already weak SkyPesos program. Can you imagine the incentive an improved airline AND a great FFP can offer?

I think it's far from a foregone conclusion that AA will follow UA and DL. They may ultimately, but I don't see it as a given as others do.

I disagree here as well. I left UA back in 2012 when the 2P cuts were announced. UA was already a mediocre airline, but I stuck around as the FFP made it worth it. I was a 2P at the time, but my travel was going to pick back up to 1K levels for the following year. UA made its announcement, however, and I decided I wasn't going to suffer thru 50k miles just to keep some semblance of the perks I already had. UA decided it didn't want me, and failed to consider that today's 2P can easily be tomorrow's 1K. So I left. I did a challenge on US, made platinum, and finished up as a CP. Requalified for CP again. UA got some revenue as I still used them for TPACs, but that was only grudgingly.

Had UA not mucked so much with MP, I might have stayed another year or two. But instead, they got me looking and I found greener pastures elsewhere. They've lost out on thousands because of it, but no worries. It worked out for me.