United's May 2014 Price Hike
May 7, 2014, 1:46 pm
#31
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
And other carriers behave the same way.
I do find it interesting to see that many of the comparisons are markets where UA has nonostop flights and the competition is offering connections. It is typical in such scenarios to see higher fares for the non-stop service. People often pay for the convenience.
May 7, 2014, 2:05 pm
#32
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,895
Looking at travel on May 28, 2014:
$111: BOS-CLT-CLE (US Airways)
$597: BOS-CLE (United)
$324: BOS-ORD-CLE (UA) (fared as bos-chi + chi-cle)
$110: BOS-CLE-ERI (UA)
May 7, 2014, 2:05 pm
#33
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Programs: UA, AA, DL, BA, Marriott, Hilton, Accor, Hyatt
Posts: 1,292
For the past few weeks, UA has been significantly more expensive than AA out of Texas in both Y and F. I stopped caring about loyalty programs a long time ago and now I just go with whoever offers the best quality/price ratio. Typically, AA and DL have had very affordable F fares lately, about half of what UA was charging in F, and typically about 30-50% more of what UA was charging in Y.
For example, IAH-ATL RT on DL, $500 in F on a 737. UA only flyies RJ's and their best price was $380. DL got my business. Another example, IAH-BRU on DL was $3,000 in an upgradeable (coach) fare bucket. That and 40,000 AMEX points transferred to DL made me go to DL for my flight to Europe in C. UA was charging $6,000 in BF for the same routing, and the Y fares had no upgrades available, again due to UA's misguided pricing strategy of not discounting "far out" travel. Another example: for a trip in January, IAH-SIN using MP awards. UA charges 195,000 miles in F one way. SQ had some saver seats at 95,000 miles in F one way. I went with SQ. Again, a mistake for UA to not release saver awards far out.
A lot of my business this year has gone to AA, DL and others. Better product, cheaper price, hard to beat. I don't even think I will make silver this year and I am not really concerned about. As long as I can get a premium flying experience elsewhere at a reasonable cost, what benefit does the UA loyalty program bring?
The only thing that annoys me is that UA has a great network out of IAH. If they get their act together, I will go back and fly UA almost exclusively, but until then there are other alternatives. And I welcome VX moving to DAL (hopefully) and I hope they move to HOU also.
Mr. Smisek, if you are reading this, please understand that this is the wrong pricing model. Far out tickets should be discounted and immediate travel should be priced higher, not the other way around. By "discount" for far out tickets I also mean increasing availability for "saver awards" and upgrade space in R. This way people can plan ahead and stay with UA. Otherwise people will be planning ahead with someone else who understands how to price air travel. It is an irony that an F seat to SIN on UA should cost twice the number of miles it costs on SQ. Please understand that I really want to see UA succeed in re-becoming a premium carrier. I am afraid, however, that we are heading toward reorganization. The value proposition is just not there anymore. You can still avoid Chapter 11 if you make some changes to your business model, but the time for change is now.
For example, IAH-ATL RT on DL, $500 in F on a 737. UA only flyies RJ's and their best price was $380. DL got my business. Another example, IAH-BRU on DL was $3,000 in an upgradeable (coach) fare bucket. That and 40,000 AMEX points transferred to DL made me go to DL for my flight to Europe in C. UA was charging $6,000 in BF for the same routing, and the Y fares had no upgrades available, again due to UA's misguided pricing strategy of not discounting "far out" travel. Another example: for a trip in January, IAH-SIN using MP awards. UA charges 195,000 miles in F one way. SQ had some saver seats at 95,000 miles in F one way. I went with SQ. Again, a mistake for UA to not release saver awards far out.
A lot of my business this year has gone to AA, DL and others. Better product, cheaper price, hard to beat. I don't even think I will make silver this year and I am not really concerned about. As long as I can get a premium flying experience elsewhere at a reasonable cost, what benefit does the UA loyalty program bring?
The only thing that annoys me is that UA has a great network out of IAH. If they get their act together, I will go back and fly UA almost exclusively, but until then there are other alternatives. And I welcome VX moving to DAL (hopefully) and I hope they move to HOU also.
Mr. Smisek, if you are reading this, please understand that this is the wrong pricing model. Far out tickets should be discounted and immediate travel should be priced higher, not the other way around. By "discount" for far out tickets I also mean increasing availability for "saver awards" and upgrade space in R. This way people can plan ahead and stay with UA. Otherwise people will be planning ahead with someone else who understands how to price air travel. It is an irony that an F seat to SIN on UA should cost twice the number of miles it costs on SQ. Please understand that I really want to see UA succeed in re-becoming a premium carrier. I am afraid, however, that we are heading toward reorganization. The value proposition is just not there anymore. You can still avoid Chapter 11 if you make some changes to your business model, but the time for change is now.
Last edited by txp; May 7, 2014 at 2:12 pm
May 7, 2014, 2:39 pm
#34
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,895
Uh, just to be clear here, you booked SQ F with KrisFlyer miles, right? If you managed to book IAH-DME-SIN in SQ F using UA miles, please tell us more.
May 7, 2014, 2:50 pm
#35
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Programs: UA, AA, DL, BA, Marriott, Hilton, Accor, Hyatt
Posts: 1,292
So,
- The outbound is SFO-ICN-SIN in F, 91,375 KF miles.
- The return is SIN-FRA-JFK in Suite, 93,500 KF miles.
I checked availability periodically on KVS until my travel dates opened up. I applaud SQ for releasing saver F inventory that far out.
The only thing I could find on UA was the standard 195,000 miles each way in GF. So UA lost my business. Had the saver award been available at the 80,000 miles each way, I would have gone with UA in GF despite the lower quality just to avoid the hassle, and they would have offloaded a liability of 160,000 miles off their books. Oh well...
Last edited by txp; May 7, 2014 at 3:16 pm
May 7, 2014, 3:55 pm
#36
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
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Posts: 21,172
Look at EWR-any non-leisure route (DTW, ATL, ORD, etc.) 10 months from now and price out a 3 day trip vs. a 4 day one for an easy example.
May 7, 2014, 4:11 pm
#37
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,393
May 7, 2014, 4:12 pm
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 8,634
LGA, one the other hand, is o/w fares to all those places, though you have to stop on the way to DTW or ATL.
May 10, 2014, 1:05 am
#39
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,478
I don't know about a price hike, but I have seen a significant change in the premium cabin fares UA offers in the past few days.
I've become quite accustomed to seeing the UP fares on domestic and latin america routes. These are economy fares that have the letters "UP" in the fare basis and book into a premium cabin booking class, typically P.
In just the past few days, these UP fares have been - so far as I can tell - completely replaced by the new UPDI fares.
What's most immediately noticeable about these UPDI fares is that the letters "UP" appear nowhere in the fare basis code. In other words, there is no obvious way to tell by looking at the fare basis code that these fares are supposed to book into a premium cabin.
Another thing I'm noticing is that the pricing on these is much more variable than with the UP's. The UPDI's seem to be tied much more closely to the underlying economy fare bucket availability and pricing. (Which is consistent with what UA said when these fares were released about how they offered "dynamic" pricing flexibility.)
This raises concerns for me about how these are going to work for purposes of SDC. They're offering these on fares as low as S, and if you're going to need S fare bucket availability to do an SDC, that's going to be a significant issue.
It also appears that UA does not offer Farelock on these fares. Or if they do, I have not seen it yet in some twenty or more searches.
But the biggest concern I have with these is how agents are going to handle them for purposes of SDC or IRROPS. I've become reasonably comfortable purchasing the UP's because even if an agent at first asserts that this is an "economy" fare, I've been able to point out to them that they are "UP" fares which book into P. And sure enough, the agent looks, and the fare basis code says "UP," and they go ahead and book me into P.
By contrast, I'm really hesitant to book one of these UPDI's because I just don't think UA's customer service agents are going to have any idea how they work, and that SDC's and IRROPS could be a complete disaster.
My suspicion is we are going to be hearing quite a bit about these new fares as people start actually flying on them in the weeks and months ahead.
I've become quite accustomed to seeing the UP fares on domestic and latin america routes. These are economy fares that have the letters "UP" in the fare basis and book into a premium cabin booking class, typically P.
In just the past few days, these UP fares have been - so far as I can tell - completely replaced by the new UPDI fares.
What's most immediately noticeable about these UPDI fares is that the letters "UP" appear nowhere in the fare basis code. In other words, there is no obvious way to tell by looking at the fare basis code that these fares are supposed to book into a premium cabin.
Another thing I'm noticing is that the pricing on these is much more variable than with the UP's. The UPDI's seem to be tied much more closely to the underlying economy fare bucket availability and pricing. (Which is consistent with what UA said when these fares were released about how they offered "dynamic" pricing flexibility.)
This raises concerns for me about how these are going to work for purposes of SDC. They're offering these on fares as low as S, and if you're going to need S fare bucket availability to do an SDC, that's going to be a significant issue.
It also appears that UA does not offer Farelock on these fares. Or if they do, I have not seen it yet in some twenty or more searches.
But the biggest concern I have with these is how agents are going to handle them for purposes of SDC or IRROPS. I've become reasonably comfortable purchasing the UP's because even if an agent at first asserts that this is an "economy" fare, I've been able to point out to them that they are "UP" fares which book into P. And sure enough, the agent looks, and the fare basis code says "UP," and they go ahead and book me into P.
By contrast, I'm really hesitant to book one of these UPDI's because I just don't think UA's customer service agents are going to have any idea how they work, and that SDC's and IRROPS could be a complete disaster.
My suspicion is we are going to be hearing quite a bit about these new fares as people start actually flying on them in the weeks and months ahead.
May 10, 2014, 6:49 am
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,971
My company uses UA as a preferred airline so I am not sure if this is the result of the contract or UA's YM practice.
Price is definitely higher. I am not sure if it is caused by greed/lack of desire to compete/poor YM or simply the reduced capacity. On the other hand, I did see a bunch of good fares for June during Easter week so booked 2 trips at good prices.
I tend to book 3-6 weeks out but occassionally I end up doing last minute trips. Sometimes I am seeing last minute fares actually lower than the fares 3-4 weeks out. Of course, between the middle seat and the uncertainty, it is not something I want to risk.
We luckily have the rule where we can still pick UA if it is higher less than $xxx. On top of that, when you figure in the saved baggage fees, the convenience of having status, SDC and irrops handling, it makes some of the extra fare justifiable. Of course, that is only up to a certain amount.
Price is definitely higher. I am not sure if it is caused by greed/lack of desire to compete/poor YM or simply the reduced capacity. On the other hand, I did see a bunch of good fares for June during Easter week so booked 2 trips at good prices.
I tend to book 3-6 weeks out but occassionally I end up doing last minute trips. Sometimes I am seeing last minute fares actually lower than the fares 3-4 weeks out. Of course, between the middle seat and the uncertainty, it is not something I want to risk.
We luckily have the rule where we can still pick UA if it is higher less than $xxx. On top of that, when you figure in the saved baggage fees, the convenience of having status, SDC and irrops handling, it makes some of the extra fare justifiable. Of course, that is only up to a certain amount.
May 10, 2014, 7:08 am
#41
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: GRR/ORD FOE MCI
Programs: UA 1K/Million Miler, AA Platinum, Starwood Preferred Gold, Marriot Gold, HHonors Silver
Posts: 95
Prices on my preferred route have gone up about 40 dollars round trip May forward. I also fly on the higher priced days- Thursday or Friday evenings and Sunday afternoons. Haven't checked the mid-week rates, as I can't fly those days.
Most of it is a mental objection.. for some reason 362 round trip GRR-ORD-FOE didn't seem as offensive to me as 404 round trip now. All on ERJ-145's, it's not exactly a fun ride.
I'm starting to book my returns on Southwest via MCI. The WGA fares and later flight times are making it worth the drive out there.
Most of it is a mental objection.. for some reason 362 round trip GRR-ORD-FOE didn't seem as offensive to me as 404 round trip now. All on ERJ-145's, it's not exactly a fun ride.
I'm starting to book my returns on Southwest via MCI. The WGA fares and later flight times are making it worth the drive out there.
May 10, 2014, 8:09 am
#42
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
Programs: United 1K and 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 10,000
Most of it is a mental objection.. for some reason 362 round trip GRR-ORD-FOE didn't seem as offensive to me as 404 round trip now. All on ERJ-145's, it's not exactly a fun ride.
I'm starting to book my returns on Southwest via MCI. The WGA fares and later flight times are making it worth the drive out there.
Such as $2700 coach ticket between US and Asia with R=0.
May 10, 2014, 8:24 am
#43
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston MA
Programs: UA 1K/1.5 million miler, SU Gold, JL Sapphire
Posts: 529
Talking about pricing games...
Flying from BOS to either Delhi or Mumbai. Before, for roughly $900 one way, it was possible to do BOS-EWR-DEL.
But for the last two times, in order to do $900, you need to do BOS-ORD(!)-EWR-DEL. Otherwise, the ticket was significantly more expensive (I think it was $1,800 one way).
I find this completely ridiculous since the plane BOS-EWR did not seem overbooked. Roughly same number of places available as on the flight to ORD.
What it seems to me is that UA is playing a pricing game where they are trying to charge me more money for a better connection. They should be careful though because I have my 10K spend done now, and probably my 1K miles too. Next trip may be financed by a client, so perhaps business class. I know this is what they want - J fares -but if they keep pushing my buttons like this, I may take that candy somewhere else.
Flying from BOS to either Delhi or Mumbai. Before, for roughly $900 one way, it was possible to do BOS-EWR-DEL.
But for the last two times, in order to do $900, you need to do BOS-ORD(!)-EWR-DEL. Otherwise, the ticket was significantly more expensive (I think it was $1,800 one way).
I find this completely ridiculous since the plane BOS-EWR did not seem overbooked. Roughly same number of places available as on the flight to ORD.
What it seems to me is that UA is playing a pricing game where they are trying to charge me more money for a better connection. They should be careful though because I have my 10K spend done now, and probably my 1K miles too. Next trip may be financed by a client, so perhaps business class. I know this is what they want - J fares -but if they keep pushing my buttons like this, I may take that candy somewhere else.
May 10, 2014, 8:30 am
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
Programs: United 1K and 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 10,000
Talking about pricing games...
Flying from BOS to either Delhi or Mumbai. Before, for roughly $900 one way, it was possible to do BOS-EWR-DEL.
But for the last two times, in order to do $900, you need to do BOS-ORD(!)-EWR-DEL. Otherwise, the ticket was significantly more expensive (I think it was $1,800 one way).
I find this completely ridiculous since the plane BOS-EWR did not seem overbooked. Roughly same number of places available as on the flight to ORD.
What it seems to me is that UA is playing a pricing game where they are trying to charge me more money for a better connection. They should be careful though because I have my 10K spend done now, and probably my 1K miles too. Next trip may be financed by a client, so perhaps business class. I know this is what they want - J fares -but if they keep pushing my buttons like this, I may take that candy somewhere else.
Flying from BOS to either Delhi or Mumbai. Before, for roughly $900 one way, it was possible to do BOS-EWR-DEL.
But for the last two times, in order to do $900, you need to do BOS-ORD(!)-EWR-DEL. Otherwise, the ticket was significantly more expensive (I think it was $1,800 one way).
I find this completely ridiculous since the plane BOS-EWR did not seem overbooked. Roughly same number of places available as on the flight to ORD.
What it seems to me is that UA is playing a pricing game where they are trying to charge me more money for a better connection. They should be careful though because I have my 10K spend done now, and probably my 1K miles too. Next trip may be financed by a client, so perhaps business class. I know this is what they want - J fares -but if they keep pushing my buttons like this, I may take that candy somewhere else.
On some dates I searched, BOS-EWR-ORD-PVG is cheaper than BOS-ORD-PVG even though BOS-ORD is wide open showing 9's.
In the PMUA days, BOS-ORD/SFO/LAX-PVG usually showed same fare if buckets are available.
Now, it could vary in big difference depending on routing even all fares are '9s.
May 10, 2014, 8:36 am
#45
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC / TYO / Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS 1.7MM, AA 2.1MM, EK, BA, SQ, CX, Marriot LT, Accor P
Posts: 6,319
The last few weeks I have really started to notice a significant difference in the international flight loads - On all of my flights business class has not been full and no one on the wait lists - these were on four flights to and from LHR. This Thursday coming back from Munich the plane had many, many open seats - I had a row of four all to my self - and I wasn't the only one... I think their pricing has started to inflict some pain...