Jan 1, 2014, 9:23 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Update1: Recent reports suggest that a stopover at origin is no longer permitted, which closes the free one-way option.
Update2: added SO/OJ at origin on two PNRs (identical in routing) with two different agents on 7/6/14 without any issues/questions.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Other notes:
•The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
•For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
•Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Update1: Recent reports suggest that a stopover at origin is no longer permitted, which closes the free one-way option.
Update2: added SO/OJ at origin on two PNRs (identical in routing) with two different agents on 7/6/14 without any issues/questions.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Other notes:
•The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
•For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
•Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Jan 16, 2014, 3:31 pm
#136
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: IL
Programs: UA Gold, DL Silver, Hertz PC, Avis Pref+, Accor Silver
Posts: 1,113
Award routing rules (40k award)
Well, after 6 hours or so on the phone.....
I was trying to book a Middle East to Central Asia award with a BKK stopover.
The agent read me the rules - on a 40,000 mile award (ME-CA), although the routing is almost always via BKK/SIN, no stopovers are allowed in BKK, SIN, HKG etc. - apparently nothing in SE Asia.
Another one of the "secret" UA award rules. Hmmm....
I was trying to book a Middle East to Central Asia award with a BKK stopover.
The agent read me the rules - on a 40,000 mile award (ME-CA), although the routing is almost always via BKK/SIN, no stopovers are allowed in BKK, SIN, HKG etc. - apparently nothing in SE Asia.
Another one of the "secret" UA award rules. Hmmm....
Jan 16, 2014, 8:53 pm
#137
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,563
Well, after 6 hours or so on the phone.....
I was trying to book a Middle East to Central Asia award with a BKK stopover.
The agent read me the rules - on a 40,000 mile award (ME-CA), although the routing is almost always via BKK/SIN, no stopovers are allowed in BKK, SIN, HKG etc. - apparently nothing in SE Asia.
Another one of the "secret" UA award rules. Hmmm....
I was trying to book a Middle East to Central Asia award with a BKK stopover.
The agent read me the rules - on a 40,000 mile award (ME-CA), although the routing is almost always via BKK/SIN, no stopovers are allowed in BKK, SIN, HKG etc. - apparently nothing in SE Asia.
Another one of the "secret" UA award rules. Hmmm....
FARE BY RULE TEXT
1 FREE STOPOVER PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT
NONE IN THAILAND/PHILIPPINES/HONG KONG SAR/INDONESIA/
SINGAPORE/MALAYSIA/VIET NAM.
NOTE -
- 8 TRANSFERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT
- 4 IN EACH DIRECTION
- FARE BREAK AND EMBEDDED SURFACE SECTORS NOT
PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT.
1 FREE STOPOVER PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT
NONE IN THAILAND/PHILIPPINES/HONG KONG SAR/INDONESIA/
SINGAPORE/MALAYSIA/VIET NAM.
NOTE -
- 8 TRANSFERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT
- 4 IN EACH DIRECTION
- FARE BREAK AND EMBEDDED SURFACE SECTORS NOT
PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT.
Jan 16, 2014, 9:43 pm
#138
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: UA Plat
Posts: 66
I'm trying to book this award ticket:
RDU-SFO-TPE (stopover)
TPE-HKG (destination)
HKG-PEK-IAD-RDU
I've managed to get everything to price out except the HKG-IAD-RDU portion. I can see available flights on HKG-PEK-IAD and for IAD-RDU (when I search for them separately). But, for some reason, if I search HKG-RDU (either as part of my itinerary, or as a one-way) I get an error on the website. Is this itinerary not valid for some reason? It's not an overly complicated itinerary, and it seems like I'm within the segment limit too. Is the website just not smart enough to piece things together? Generally speaking, if I can find availability as one-ways, then the phone agents should have no trouble linking those together into a single booking, right?
RDU-SFO-TPE (stopover)
TPE-HKG (destination)
HKG-PEK-IAD-RDU
I've managed to get everything to price out except the HKG-IAD-RDU portion. I can see available flights on HKG-PEK-IAD and for IAD-RDU (when I search for them separately). But, for some reason, if I search HKG-RDU (either as part of my itinerary, or as a one-way) I get an error on the website. Is this itinerary not valid for some reason? It's not an overly complicated itinerary, and it seems like I'm within the segment limit too. Is the website just not smart enough to piece things together? Generally speaking, if I can find availability as one-ways, then the phone agents should have no trouble linking those together into a single booking, right?
Jan 16, 2014, 10:44 pm
#139
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,551
I'm trying to book this award ticket:
RDU-SFO-TPE (stopover)
TPE-HKG (destination)
HKG-PEK-IAD-RDU
I've managed to get everything to price out except the HKG-IAD-RDU portion. I can see available flights on HKG-PEK-IAD and for IAD-RDU (when I search for them separately). But, for some reason, if I search HKG-RDU (either as part of my itinerary, or as a one-way) I get an error on the website. Is this itinerary not valid for some reason? It's not an overly complicated itinerary, and it seems like I'm within the segment limit too. Is the website just not smart enough to piece things together? Generally speaking, if I can find availability as one-ways, then the phone agents should have no trouble linking those together into a single booking, right?
RDU-SFO-TPE (stopover)
TPE-HKG (destination)
HKG-PEK-IAD-RDU
I've managed to get everything to price out except the HKG-IAD-RDU portion. I can see available flights on HKG-PEK-IAD and for IAD-RDU (when I search for them separately). But, for some reason, if I search HKG-RDU (either as part of my itinerary, or as a one-way) I get an error on the website. Is this itinerary not valid for some reason? It's not an overly complicated itinerary, and it seems like I'm within the segment limit too. Is the website just not smart enough to piece things together? Generally speaking, if I can find availability as one-ways, then the phone agents should have no trouble linking those together into a single booking, right?
Jan 16, 2014, 10:48 pm
#140
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,563
I'd like to take guesses on just how hard this would be to book for a coworker:
LAX-YUL-MUC-FCO (destination)
<OJ>
BCN-FRA-CDG (stopover)
<OJ>
LHR-MUC-YUL-LAX
It falls within the rules (2xOJ and one SO). Maybe the best way to book this is Make the "middle leg" BCN-FRA-LHR initially, causing the stopover in LHR, and then swap out the FRA-LHR for FRA-CDG creating the stopover+OJ?
Complicating this is that the award will be for 5 people, 2 in J and 3 in Y which places them on two separate PNRs, so whatever we do, it'll have to be done twice to create/change both PNRs
LAX-YUL-MUC-FCO (destination)
<OJ>
BCN-FRA-CDG (stopover)
<OJ>
LHR-MUC-YUL-LAX
It falls within the rules (2xOJ and one SO). Maybe the best way to book this is Make the "middle leg" BCN-FRA-LHR initially, causing the stopover in LHR, and then swap out the FRA-LHR for FRA-CDG creating the stopover+OJ?
Complicating this is that the award will be for 5 people, 2 in J and 3 in Y which places them on two separate PNRs, so whatever we do, it'll have to be done twice to create/change both PNRs
Jan 16, 2014, 10:57 pm
#141
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,551
I'd like to take guesses on just how hard this would be to book for a coworker:
LAX-YUL-MUC-FCO (destination)
<OJ>
BCN-FRA-CDG (stopover)
<OJ>
LHR-MUC-YUL-LAX
It falls within the rules (2xOJ and one SO). Maybe the best way to book this is Make the "middle leg" BCN-FRA-LHR initially, causing the stopover in LHR, and then swap out the FRA-LHR for FRA-CDG creating the stopover+OJ?
Complicating this is that the award will be for 5 people, 2 in J and 3 in Y which places them on two separate PNRs, so whatever we do, it'll have to be done twice to create/change both PNRs
LAX-YUL-MUC-FCO (destination)
<OJ>
BCN-FRA-CDG (stopover)
<OJ>
LHR-MUC-YUL-LAX
It falls within the rules (2xOJ and one SO). Maybe the best way to book this is Make the "middle leg" BCN-FRA-LHR initially, causing the stopover in LHR, and then swap out the FRA-LHR for FRA-CDG creating the stopover+OJ?
Complicating this is that the award will be for 5 people, 2 in J and 3 in Y which places them on two separate PNRs, so whatever we do, it'll have to be done twice to create/change both PNRs
Jan 16, 2014, 11:27 pm
#142
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: PDX
Programs: DL Plat, UA Plat 1MM, AS MVP, Hyatt Discoverist, Avis Presidents Club, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 3,938
I would consider Barcelona-Paris by train. Six hours straight into Gare de Lyon. No FRA connection, no CDG hassles. barcelona-paris-high-speed-rail-link-launched
Jan 17, 2014, 12:07 am
#143
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: IL
Programs: UA Gold, DL Silver, Hertz PC, Avis Pref+, Accor Silver
Posts: 1,113
Fare rules
Some of the routings via IST are fairly new, I think. Availability is zero on the dates I am looking at...
Where can you see the "published" fare rules ?
D.
Where can you see the "published" fare rules ?
D.
Jan 17, 2014, 12:46 am
#144
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: LAX/BUR
Posts: 525
I need help with the possibilities of a trip... trying to see what my options are for the free one-way ticket...
Here's what I have so far:
EWR-AUH (destination)
DXB-PHL (<24 hours)
PHL-LAX (stopover)
LAX-???
I've worked out the ??? to be Hawaii, the Caribbean, or Central America for no add'l miles. Wondering if I could make it somewhere in Europe or the South Pacific because technically the Middle East to Europe, Africa, and Oceania are all less than 40k, but I'm not sure if this would be considered backtracking.
Thanks in advance for help!!!
Here's what I have so far:
EWR-AUH (destination)
DXB-PHL (<24 hours)
PHL-LAX (stopover)
LAX-???
I've worked out the ??? to be Hawaii, the Caribbean, or Central America for no add'l miles. Wondering if I could make it somewhere in Europe or the South Pacific because technically the Middle East to Europe, Africa, and Oceania are all less than 40k, but I'm not sure if this would be considered backtracking.
Thanks in advance for help!!!
Last edited by maddie5218; Jan 17, 2014 at 1:20 am
Jan 17, 2014, 7:48 am
#145
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: PDX
Programs: DL Plat, UA Plat 1MM, AS MVP, Hyatt Discoverist, Avis Presidents Club, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 3,938
I need help with the possibilities of a trip... trying to see what my options are for the free one-way ticket...
Here's what I have so far:
EWR-AUH (destination)
DXB-PHL (<24 hours)
PHL-LAX (stopover)
LAX-???
I've worked out the ??? to be Hawaii, the Caribbean, or Central America for no add'l miles. Wondering if I could make it somewhere in Europe or the South Pacific because technically the Middle East to Europe, Africa, and Oceania are all less than 40k, but I'm not sure if this would be considered backtracking.
Thanks in advance for help!!!
Here's what I have so far:
EWR-AUH (destination)
DXB-PHL (<24 hours)
PHL-LAX (stopover)
LAX-???
I've worked out the ??? to be Hawaii, the Caribbean, or Central America for no add'l miles. Wondering if I could make it somewhere in Europe or the South Pacific because technically the Middle East to Europe, Africa, and Oceania are all less than 40k, but I'm not sure if this would be considered backtracking.
Thanks in advance for help!!!
Hawaii or Central American should be fairly easy; Caribbean not sure.
Jan 17, 2014, 12:13 pm
#146
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: san antonio, texas
Programs: 3.2MM AA, 1.4MM UA,StwdLftPlt
Posts: 1,586
Just had a fail on trying to insert an open jaw in the stopover part of a North America to South Asia business class award. Existing open jaw at destination (BKK-SIN). Tried to open jaw original stopover (IST) by returning from Antalya (AYT). Computer unable to price and after about 30 minutes on hold, told "can only have one open jaw."
Since a TY econ ticket back to IST is <100USD, not sure I will explore the same alternative with another agent.
Since a TY econ ticket back to IST is <100USD, not sure I will explore the same alternative with another agent.
Jan 17, 2014, 1:29 pm
#148
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: LAX/BUR
Posts: 525
My logic wants to say it should work because I would think you'd have to stop in the US if you were going to the Caribbean from the Middle East, right?
EDIT: just got the caribbean to work from a different airport in the US. There wouldn't be a rule making it possible from one part of the country and not the other, would there?
Jan 17, 2014, 5:22 pm
#149
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: Priority Club Platinum Ambassador, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 264
Hi i have a question about an united award.
Is this a valid award
TYO-BKK (stopover)
BKK-PVG ( < 24 H )
PVG-AKL ( < 24 H )
AKL-PPT (destination)
PPT-AKL ( < 24 H )
AKL-BKK ( < 24 H )
BKK-TYO
Thank You.
Is this a valid award
TYO-BKK (stopover)
BKK-PVG ( < 24 H )
PVG-AKL ( < 24 H )
AKL-PPT (destination)
PPT-AKL ( < 24 H )
AKL-BKK ( < 24 H )
BKK-TYO
Thank You.
Last edited by winkny; Jan 17, 2014 at 5:27 pm
Jan 17, 2014, 5:39 pm
#150
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372