DaviddesJ

It would be foolish to claim to know how much any stock is going to go up this year. Whether a company pays dividends, or retains and reinvests its profits, doesn't affect its value to the shareholder, at all. Google has never paid any dividends, does that make the stock worthless?

kettle1

GOOG has also worked VERY WELL for me as well. Very well. I am talking about UAL compared to others in the same sector.

PLeblond

Sorry. Couldn't disagree with you more. 25 year old, without a fleet replacement strategy in place. MD80s were bad when they were called DC9s and they haven't gotten better with age. There are airports the the MD88 is not allowed to fly in/out of because of noise restrictions. CRJ/ERJ board and exit faster allowing for easier connections.

Thats the problem. Interiors are being upgraded but to 2005 standards. Flying to Hawaii in J/F on a 6-9 hour flight. No IFE, no lie flat, not even footrests in J/F!
Forget the Asian carriers, even AC has IFE throughout their fleet...even the CRJs. Most top airlines are re-renewing their interiors to a new, even higher standard while the Legacy carriers are fighting to catch up to yesterday's.

DL2SXM

not to mention that these shiny brand new frames still don't have a J cabin with direct aisle access for those passengers. UA really could have made the 787 a game changer but didn't.

Age is just a # with Delta. Not only did they have the best on time and completion percentages, but cabin mods, wifi, ife and the award winning Delta hospitality still keeps UA down for the count no matter what the age of the plane.

TomA

If you find someone that believes that, let me know. I have a bridge for sale in Manhattan. Both are focused on the short term.

What a coincidence. That's what I keep telling the hotties down at the bar.

Sigh... Ain't working there either.

ConnFlyer

MD88's have F class and Economy comfort (Y+)...CRJ/ERJ have neither.
MD88's have some meal service in F....CRJ/ERJ do not.
MD88's have real sized overhead bins...CRJ/ERJ do not.
MD88's have Wi-Fi....CRJ/ERJ do not.

There are no commercial airports that ban the MD88 due to noise.

I'm not saying the MD88/90/717 are perfect, but they are a far better strategy than UA's strategy of shrinking into oblivion with ERJ's.

UA-NYC

So you're making a case that the (bare bones) RJs (with RJ on-board "service", after all) are a better experience than a mainline plane that's been internally renovated and is much more spacious? I think you're mostly alone with that argument.

TWA Fan 1

Not only is there a fleet replacement strategy, but delivery of its order of new 739ER's began in 2013.

Second, all of DL's MD series a/c operate with Stage IV hushkits which meet noise regs in all airports in the United States.

Finally, yes the MD series is based on the old DC9, but then again, let's not forget that the 737 is also based on the old 737-100-200 series a/c that were introduced in 1967 (the first DC9 flew in commercial service in 1965) which had very loud and dirty non-turbofan jets.

Mike Jacoubowsky

I last flew in a DL MD88/whatever 4 years ago. It reminded me, again, of why it's my least-favorite plane in the sky. The cabin noise was atrocious... talk about engine "whine", this plane has it in spades. Now perhaps the hush kits were installed after that, although I don't know if the hush kit has much effect internally or just externally. And of course, I was towards the back of the plane; as an elite, I'm sure the noise would be much less bothersome.

The other thing surprising in this thread is lumping together all RJs. The -7 isn't all that bad. I have no issue with that plane on longer (SFO-IAH) flights. Most laptop batteries will last 3 hours, Channel 9 has become more miss than hit on mainline aircraft lately, and scheduling wins out over the marginal possibility of an upgrade on a mainline plane. Plus, on the RJs, you can play a guessing game of whether the pilot's old enough to shave.

CMK10

If you're towards the back it's bad, but if you're up front? One of the quietest rides you'll be on. The MD-80 is my most flown aircraft (thanks, AA) and I don't mind it. Frankly, having a mainline plane with wifi and a two-seat pair is worth a lot to me.

PLeblond

I believe the 739ERs are intended to replace the 757s, but I may be wrong.

YUL has night restrictions for noise. From their website: "Note also that especially noisy aircraft cannot be granted exemptions for night flights; these include the Antonov, B727, B737 100 and 200 series, B747, DC9, DC10, Ilyushin, L101, MD 80 and MD-11." I agree with you that all US airport allow them. Most legacy carriers have hundreds of them so banning them would not be politically wise.

As for the 737 vs. MD80, all 3 major airlines in the US operate Next Gen 737s (700-800-900) that was first delivered in 1994. The last MD-80s were delivered in 1997 and were still based on the original upgrade from the DC-9 in 1980. For those reasons (and the jackscrew design flaw), I purposely avoid MD80s at all costs.

CMK10

The 737-NGs were first ordered in 1994 but not delivered until 1997 (73G) and 1998 (738)

PLeblond

In the case of the MD80, yes, I am. Interiors don't get you to your destination, mechanical reliability does. They are old, noisy, have an inherent design flaw, and are all coming into fuselage cycle numbers that go well beyond what they were originally designed for.

I also don't mind being alone on an argument; 520+ years ago, everyone thought the world was flat. That doesn't mean they were right.

Thank you for the correction. I must have misread.

Mike Jacoubowsky

Which illustrates the difference between the elite vs GM experience. I've only flown "in the back" of a UA plane once in recent years, DEN-SFO leg of a WX nightmare (rebookings, last flight out of Dodge, re-enactment of the Fall of Saigon, that sort of thing). 2.5 hours, I survived, not great back there but good to get home. And the person next to me was a 1K (I was a 1P at the time I think?).

So you're right though; as an elite, the MD80 probably isn't such a bad plane to fly, and likely better than a CR7.

TWA Fan 1

Regarding noise restrictions at YUL, please note this does not apply to MD80 series a/c retrofitted with Series IV hushkit noise attenuators which comply with the strictest noise restrictions currently in place.

As far as the vintage of the MD80 series, it is definitely at least a generation behind the most current iteration of the 737, but keep in mind that the MD80 series was not the last model in the DC9 series.

The final a/c built by McDonnell Douglas was the MD95, known as the 717 since Boeing's acquisition of McDonnell Douglas.

As its name implies, its a mid-nineties technology, but it's substantially more modern than the MD80 series, including full glass flight deck (a few MD90 series were delivered with glass cockpits) and modern turbofan jets.

As you know, DL also flies the 717. Also acquired second hand.

Finally, as far as the merits of the MD80 vs the 737 family, I'm not quite as categorical as you about it.

While it is indisputable that an MD80 is older than a late-vintage 737 (and keep in mind there are sill plenty of older 737's flying out there on US and WN), I do like the fact that there is one less middle seat in the economy cabin on an MD80 series vs the 737.

If I'm flying in the front cabin, the MD80 has the added advantage of being whisper quiet, since the engines are so far back (obviously, the converse is true for the pax sitting in the back of the bus).

In the end, to each his/her own.

If an a/c is properly maintained it's perfectly safe and as a customer I'm less concerned about the date the plane rolled off the assembly line than the flying experience on board. As others have noted, a well renovated interior with plenty of amenities such as WiFi, sat TV and AVOD can easily beat out a brand new "dark bird" for most passengers.