Flight Change Back to Original Flight - after $550 in Change fees - What to do?
Jun 30, 2013, 6:58 pm
#61
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Jun 30, 2013, 7:17 pm
#62
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Then if the new flight was CXed wouldnt UA charge them a 3rd time for E+ on the new flight even thou at 1 time they paid for it.
Each time you pay and its CXed out the window goes the $$s.
Jun 30, 2013, 7:35 pm
#63
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[[Quote:
Originally Posted by craz
If say the OP paid for E+ on their original flight and then switched flights, wouldnt they have to pay for E+ again?
Yes, but they also get a refund for the original E+ payment.
Quote:
Then if the new flight was CXed wouldnt UA charge them a 3rd time for E+ on the new flight even thou at 1 time they paid for it.
Yes, the original E+ transaction is cancelled and refunded, so you start all over again.
Quote:
Each time you pay and its CXed out the window goes the $$s.
That is incorrect. The only time it goes out the window is if you still fly the same flight, but choose to fly in a cheaper seat, or if you get a CPU.]]
Don't you have to fill out a form to request the refund? UA doesn't just automatically refund it, do they? (Or have they changed this?)
Originally Posted by craz
If say the OP paid for E+ on their original flight and then switched flights, wouldnt they have to pay for E+ again?
Yes, but they also get a refund for the original E+ payment.
Quote:
Then if the new flight was CXed wouldnt UA charge them a 3rd time for E+ on the new flight even thou at 1 time they paid for it.
Yes, the original E+ transaction is cancelled and refunded, so you start all over again.
Quote:
Each time you pay and its CXed out the window goes the $$s.
That is incorrect. The only time it goes out the window is if you still fly the same flight, but choose to fly in a cheaper seat, or if you get a CPU.]]
Don't you have to fill out a form to request the refund? UA doesn't just automatically refund it, do they? (Or have they changed this?)
Jun 30, 2013, 7:36 pm
#64
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There is a difference between, "You didn't arrive at time Y because of weather, mechanical, air traffic, whatever" and "We charged you $550 to put you on a different flight, then we decided not to operate that flight at all."
If there were an airline out there that made a habit of scheduling 4 AM flights and charging a $200 price premium to buy tickets on them but then always cancelled the flights and put passengers on the next available flight, that airline would find themselves staring down an action for deceptive trade practice (or some other more appropriate legal term.)
What if you walked up to the ticket counter the morning of the flight and paid $550 to change, then once the transaction processed, the airline cancelled the flight 2 minutes later? Technically OK by the CoC, right? No rational person would argue that was ok in real life, because it isn't.
Just because an airline puts a term in a contract of carriage doesn't necessarily mean that term is enforceable.
UA should refund the change fee / fare difference.
My personal recommendation, if the web form doesn't work (and it may not, just as a matter of odd circumstance and overworked CS reps): Twitter. A simple, "Paid $550 to change flights, UA kept me on same flight, need refund."
Nobody wants to fly an airline where you pay for something and then don't get it and the airline thinks that's OK. And I would hope UA wouldn't think that was OK either.
If there were an airline out there that made a habit of scheduling 4 AM flights and charging a $200 price premium to buy tickets on them but then always cancelled the flights and put passengers on the next available flight, that airline would find themselves staring down an action for deceptive trade practice (or some other more appropriate legal term.)
What if you walked up to the ticket counter the morning of the flight and paid $550 to change, then once the transaction processed, the airline cancelled the flight 2 minutes later? Technically OK by the CoC, right? No rational person would argue that was ok in real life, because it isn't.
Just because an airline puts a term in a contract of carriage doesn't necessarily mean that term is enforceable.
UA should refund the change fee / fare difference.
My personal recommendation, if the web form doesn't work (and it may not, just as a matter of odd circumstance and overworked CS reps): Twitter. A simple, "Paid $550 to change flights, UA kept me on same flight, need refund."
Nobody wants to fly an airline where you pay for something and then don't get it and the airline thinks that's OK. And I would hope UA wouldn't think that was OK either.
Jun 30, 2013, 10:00 pm
#65
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[[Quote:
Originally Posted by craz
If say the OP paid for E+ on their original flight and then switched flights, wouldnt they have to pay for E+ again?
Yes, but they also get a refund for the original E+ payment.
Quote:
Then if the new flight was CXed wouldnt UA charge them a 3rd time for E+ on the new flight even thou at 1 time they paid for it.
Yes, the original E+ transaction is cancelled and refunded, so you start all over again.
Quote:
Each time you pay and its CXed out the window goes the $$s.
That is incorrect. The only time it goes out the window is if you still fly the same flight, but choose to fly in a cheaper seat, or if you get a CPU.]]
Don't you have to fill out a form to request the refund? UA doesn't just automatically refund it, do they? (Or have they changed this?)
Originally Posted by craz
If say the OP paid for E+ on their original flight and then switched flights, wouldnt they have to pay for E+ again?
Yes, but they also get a refund for the original E+ payment.
Quote:
Then if the new flight was CXed wouldnt UA charge them a 3rd time for E+ on the new flight even thou at 1 time they paid for it.
Yes, the original E+ transaction is cancelled and refunded, so you start all over again.
Quote:
Each time you pay and its CXed out the window goes the $$s.
That is incorrect. The only time it goes out the window is if you still fly the same flight, but choose to fly in a cheaper seat, or if you get a CPU.]]
Don't you have to fill out a form to request the refund? UA doesn't just automatically refund it, do they? (Or have they changed this?)
Jun 30, 2013, 11:35 pm
#66
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The law does not always require us to do the right thing. To paraphrase C.S. Lewis, "Integrity is doing the right thing, even when the COC gives you a free pass.” Focussing on the COC language to the exclusion of the equities is rather cynical.
The key facts here are: (1) the passenger already held a ticket for the later flight; and (2) the passenger paid an additional amount to change to the earlier flight. The dispute concerns UA's inability to make good on the change, not the general principle that flights can be delayed or cancelled. United can hide behind its COC and affirm its lack of integrity, as several here have argued. It shouldn't.
The key facts here are: (1) the passenger already held a ticket for the later flight; and (2) the passenger paid an additional amount to change to the earlier flight. The dispute concerns UA's inability to make good on the change, not the general principle that flights can be delayed or cancelled. United can hide behind its COC and affirm its lack of integrity, as several here have argued. It shouldn't.
"Any help/advice/recommendations you guys and gals could leave for her on here would be great." doesn't sound like it's asking for the latter.
Jun 30, 2013, 11:44 pm
#67
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Jul 1, 2013, 12:44 am
#68
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If setting realistic expectations about UA's response is discouraging her from even attempting, so be it.
It can go either way - I know people who have won and lost airfare CC disputes. I'm commenting on how I expect UA and the CC company to respond.
It can go either way - I know people who have won and lost airfare CC disputes. I'm commenting on how I expect UA and the CC company to respond.
Jul 1, 2013, 11:56 am
#69
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If it can go either way, how can you know what to expect? That's like saying the coin flip could be heads or tails, but you expect it to be heads.
Jul 1, 2013, 12:20 pm
#70
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Really? That's what she bought a ticket to leave and arrive at a specific time? They issued a special contract of carriage just for her that specified that?
Maybe they will totally cross out this part of it (which pretty much all airlines have)
Schedules are Subject To Change Without Notice - Times shown on ticket, timetable or elsewhere are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. UA will promptly provide Passengers the best available information regarding known delays, cancellations, misconnections and diversions, but UA is not liable for any misstatements or other errors or omissions in connection with providing such information. No employee, agent or representative of UA can bind UA legally by reason of any statements relating to flight status or other information. Except to the extent provided in this Rule, UA shall not be liable for failing to operate any flight according to schedule, or for any change in flight schedule, with or without notice to the passenger.
When you buy a ticket you agree to certain terms. It's good to know those terms before making crazy statements.
Maybe they will totally cross out this part of it (which pretty much all airlines have)
Schedules are Subject To Change Without Notice - Times shown on ticket, timetable or elsewhere are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. UA will promptly provide Passengers the best available information regarding known delays, cancellations, misconnections and diversions, but UA is not liable for any misstatements or other errors or omissions in connection with providing such information. No employee, agent or representative of UA can bind UA legally by reason of any statements relating to flight status or other information. Except to the extent provided in this Rule, UA shall not be liable for failing to operate any flight according to schedule, or for any change in flight schedule, with or without notice to the passenger.
When you buy a ticket you agree to certain terms. It's good to know those terms before making crazy statements.
Jul 1, 2013, 12:33 pm
#71
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This is just wrong. UA or any other airline will always give you a refund if your flight is delayed or cancelled and you would prefer not to go at the new time.
Jul 1, 2013, 1:49 pm
#72
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Thats what I said up thread, the problem is our OP it seems did fly and didnt ask for a refund for the now CXed flight (which should have been for the original fare paid, the Up Charge to the new higher fare for the earlier flight and the change fee, not sure if UA would have refunded the change fee). But instead it seems they flew on the original flight instead of getting the tkt refunded and flying on another carrier
Jul 1, 2013, 2:04 pm
#73
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Jul 1, 2013, 3:48 pm
#74
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But the pax didn't just pay a change fee. The pax paid a fee to fly on an earlier flight. The airline decided not to operate that flight, putting the pax back on the original flight. As no change occurred, the passenger should be refunded the fee for the change that was not made.
You can't charge for something you decide not to deliver. Putting something in the CoC that says you can doesn't matter. The CoC is a contract of adhesion (it's not negotiated between the two parties) and unconscionable terms are not enforceable. And that's assuming UA even intends for the CoC to work this way - UA can't be responsible for every flight that's late, so it makes sense for the term restricting liability for schedule changes to be there. But hopefully even UA can see that it's not right to charge hundreds of dollars to change a ticket to a flight, then cancel that flight, and keep the money.
PAX should get their money back. Start by contacting UA directly, then twitter, then small claims court. I would never allow a company to charge me $550 for nothing - and nothing is exactly what United did here. I would place the odds at very high that you would prevail in small claims court (A judge is not going to respond favorably to, "But our small print specifically states we may screw the customer!"), but I also expect United will do the right thing if you can get in touch with someone who has the ability to do the right thing rather than just the scripted thing.
You can't charge for something you decide not to deliver. Putting something in the CoC that says you can doesn't matter. The CoC is a contract of adhesion (it's not negotiated between the two parties) and unconscionable terms are not enforceable. And that's assuming UA even intends for the CoC to work this way - UA can't be responsible for every flight that's late, so it makes sense for the term restricting liability for schedule changes to be there. But hopefully even UA can see that it's not right to charge hundreds of dollars to change a ticket to a flight, then cancel that flight, and keep the money.
PAX should get their money back. Start by contacting UA directly, then twitter, then small claims court. I would never allow a company to charge me $550 for nothing - and nothing is exactly what United did here. I would place the odds at very high that you would prevail in small claims court (A judge is not going to respond favorably to, "But our small print specifically states we may screw the customer!"), but I also expect United will do the right thing if you can get in touch with someone who has the ability to do the right thing rather than just the scripted thing.