channa

I miss that, too. But I don't blame UA or Jeff Smisek for it. That CO was long gone over a decade ago.

CO used to take home Freddies regularly in the late 1990's and early 2000's.

The last time I see CO winning a single Freddie was in 2002. I think 2003 was the year they instated 50% EQM, which might have had an impact.

http://www.freddieawards.com/winners.php?id=18

NiceLanding

There's one thing I've long wondered about. In years of following discussions on the PMUA forum here, I never noticed the word "kettle" until I started visiting the PMCO forum, where it was commonly used in a disdainful tone to refer to those same non-elite customers that you think were treated with respect. Is it conceivable that the wide-spread reference to "kettles" reflected the real PMCO attitude, rather than the official party-line?

hobo13

This makes no sense. On one hand you say you are a Plat who misses CO. On the other, you are disturbed that UA doesn't care about non-elites.

So which is it? Or let me guess, you want everyone to be treated like a Plat all the time. EVERYONE should sit up front. EVERYONE should board first. EVERYONE should have a special call line.

Newsflash: When everyone is elite, no one is elite. And indeed, that's where we're headed.

I don't dispute this at all. But I will say this, my CPU percentage plunged from say 95% to about 40%. Same fares, same flight patterns. And that happened on 3/3/12. @:-)

I'll acknowledge that the CPU concept came to United from CO -- without the merger, we probably would never have had it. I was skeptical about it at first, just like many of us. But man, I came to LOVE it. At 95%, who wouldn't?

But just as quickly as CO brought it to us, they essentially ripped it away with their ToD's. Jeffy Jefff would have been better off if the PMUA 1K's had never known just how nice CPU's could be. Had the transition been from e-500's to crappy CPU's in a ToD world, there would have been much less uproar, because frankly, our UG % probably would have been similar.

halls120

I still wish they would get rid of the CPU and go back to the e500 certs.

hobo13

1.5 years ago, I would say I like CPU's better. Today, I'm ambivalent.

And I definitely think that Golds / Silvers (maybe Plats) would for sure be better with e-500's.

entropy

it is interesting... I think a lot of people would rather know they have a reasonable shot at an upgrade, even as a gold. Rationing out upgrades (As they used to) is a good thing. Setting up everyone for the expectation that they're going to get an upgrade leads to despair 'dammit #39 on the upgrade list?!'.

channa

TODs is part of it, but Y/B-Ups is also a huge part of it.

A Silver on a B fare now trumps a 1K on an E fare. That didn't happen before 3/3 on the UA side.

Combined with the fare structure revisions that push several shorter stay trips to higher fares (CO had this previously, and we've seen more of it across the blended network, where B is sometimes the lowest fare for one-ways or < 3 day stays), we're probably seeing more B fares sold, and as a result, more instant-ups.

So I'm sure there is a certain subset of customers that is now happy -- Gold/Silver Y/B customers. But the question is, are those the customers to be rewarding?

If the fare structure pushed them to Y/B, and they bought the ticket because of the schedule, they're just buying the ticket because it was the cheapest available, and upgrading because the little Upgrade link showed up. Meanwhile, the 100,000-mile mixed fare flyer like the one above who saw their upgrade rate tank to half or less takes note and moves all of his business away.

So that raises the question of what is the more profitable move. Sure, the Y/B fare Silver is a good, profitable customer. But what is his flight risk vs. higher-volume, mixed fare flyers? If the Silver B is buying the flight because of schedule, and paying the fare because that's the fare offered, then he's far more likely to do it anyway, irrespective of the instant-upgrade perk, no?

Or it could be a combination of the Y/B policy combined with a flawed fare structure. If people are ever in a situation where Y/B is the cheapest, then that means they are not realizing even $1 of extra revenue for the F cabin from an Elite. Take the example above, where the Silver buys the cheapest fare he can find, a B fare, and change that to an E fare, but offer a B fare for marginally more. THEN, the Silver would be consciously paying more for the F cabin rather than utilizing the finite resource with no positive effect on revenue.

andrewwm

You must not have been around the old UA forum much. I remember dozens of threads in the old UA forum about how UA was a terrible airline for GMs but great if you were an elite, plus countless hundreds/thousands more that used the term kettle derogatively.

halls120

The gate monitors with 45 people on the UG list when there are 24 F seats available is laughable, and as you note, creates disappointment, not anticipation.

The only time in my life I've paid for a B fare on a leisure trip is when my Dad passed away. I've had to do it occasionally for business, but those are situation few and far between. This is one of the reasons I'm flying UA less and the competition more.

UA-NYC

Esp since at the gate there are maybe only 1-2 tops available for those 45

I_Can_Fly_US_Airways

1. I follow the stock market more closely than 99.9% of most people on the planet.
2. I was not questioning the value of stock of UA. I was simply stating that Jeff's pitch was based upon SCREAMING THE FACT THAT HE created the World's Biggest Airline & ALL the advantages all is worth.
3. Now that HE will no longer be #1, what does he do??? Trashes that theory & says, "No, being #1 ain't that important".

Nothing chaps my A$$ more than hypocrisy!!!

burlax

TBF, "changes we'll like" are not going to be reflected in the stock price immediately. First, people will get really upset. Second, they'll move their business to competitors. Third, UA financials will be impacted, at which point the analysts will take notice and THEN the price will be adjusted. But that may as well take a year. Also, it's quite uncertain whether UA would be able to extract more money from kettles via ToDs or from FFs via CPU and repeat business. We shall see.

Indelaware

One should always fly the lowest priced (safe) carrier. FF benefits should only come into play when fares are the same. When I am treated better by the person next to me, I feel embarrassed. I always use OLCI so I don't need the Elite Access line at the airport (those few times I do need to go to the counter, I stand in the general line) and I always board last (just like I did long before there was such a thing as a FF plan). And when I get the upgrade, I generally swap seats with someone from the back of the plane, preferably an elderly member of the working-poor. The seats in back are just fine.

We clearly think differently.

There's that attitude again - we deserve upgrades. Upgrades are, IMHO, of trivial value. If UA can find a sucker to pay a few bucks for them, that's great for the airline and no skin off me. Frankly, it amazes me both that some people pay to sit up front and others rush to sit up there for free. Ah, but if mergers continue to happen, when one airline ends up with 60%+ of the market, they will move to single cabin aircraft on all domestic routes -- just as the other large remaining carrier, WN, will have.

Clearly we think differently.

I couldn't care less who gets to sit up front, who gets to board first, and having a special line. The only benefit of benefit to this elite is extra miles as they mean free flights. Upgrades, etc., are to my mind only a means by the airline from giving away what really is of value, space on the plane.

I don't need a special line at the airport or on the phone. I want an airline that has well trained staff treating each customer the same.

Clearly we think differently.

The derogative term may have been on the CO forum, but I don't remember it there. I came to see it - and see it often - on the UA forum.

burlax

Upgrades may be of trivial value to you, and if so, I'm glad you are enjoying your white crow status. However, for many people, upgrades are not of trivial value, since many people actually pay premium for the seat in the premium cabin.

craz

Lets be Fair UA won the awards since it was Giving everything away for a song . And on very low fares folks would have a PNR with 10 segments to it

The more a company gave things away the more awards they won, but that doesnt mean its being Runned properly