united lies about reason for delay - UA46 9/30/2012
#17
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You say "original airplane" as if a flight owns a specific inbound flight or aircraft every day. That's now how scheduling works.
Flight 46 is late because it's waiting for an inbound aircraft that is going to become flight 46.
Flight 46 is late because it's waiting for an inbound aircraft that is going to become flight 46.
#18
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+1 - But, that wouldn't allow for a thread title such as, "UA ruined my life by only serving 2 ice cubes in PDB's."
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 21
if you had read all my comments you would have seen that when I checked 3-4 hours before scheduled departure, it said the inbound aircraft had already landed and the flight was on time. So that's why I said the "original" aircraft.
#20
Used to be PWMRamper
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Now as to WHY tails swap...couldn't tell ya that. A variety of reasons.
#21
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Here and there
Programs: General member, former 1P
Posts: 583
Part of me wishes that UA would stop "publishing" reasons for delays. The codes we see have only the dimmest connection to reality - not because the airline is lying or scheming, but because the reason given to the customer has almost no importance to the airline. UA has its own internal system that codes and tracks delays for internal and FAA purposes - THAT is the one that matters.
The parallel public reasons we see - awaiting inbound aircraft, airport conditions, etc. - cause more heartache than they prevent.
What would be fantastic would be a completely transparent system where we passengers see the true delay reason as coded in UA's internal system. But I'm sure the airline has its reasons for not sharing all of those with the public, as is their choice. They only have to get me to point B safely, not tell me why I am late.
In short, the current system has the veneer of transparency and sharing of information but no real transparency or information.
The parallel public reasons we see - awaiting inbound aircraft, airport conditions, etc. - cause more heartache than they prevent.
What would be fantastic would be a completely transparent system where we passengers see the true delay reason as coded in UA's internal system. But I'm sure the airline has its reasons for not sharing all of those with the public, as is their choice. They only have to get me to point B safely, not tell me why I am late.
In short, the current system has the veneer of transparency and sharing of information but no real transparency or information.
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 21
Part of me wishes that UA would stop "publishing" reasons for delays. The codes we see have only the dimmest connection to reality - not because the airline is lying or scheming, but because the reason given to the customer has almost no importance to the airline. UA has its own internal system that codes and tracks delays for internal and FAA purposes - THAT is the one that matters.
The parallel public reasons we see - awaiting inbound aircraft, airport conditions, etc. - cause more heartache than they prevent.
What would be fantastic would be a completely transparent system where we passengers see the true delay reason as coded in UA's internal system. But I'm sure the airline has its reasons for not sharing all of those with the public, as is their choice. They only have to get me to point B safely, not tell me why I am late.
In short, the current system has the veneer of transparency and sharing of information but no real transparency or information.
The parallel public reasons we see - awaiting inbound aircraft, airport conditions, etc. - cause more heartache than they prevent.
What would be fantastic would be a completely transparent system where we passengers see the true delay reason as coded in UA's internal system. But I'm sure the airline has its reasons for not sharing all of those with the public, as is their choice. They only have to get me to point B safely, not tell me why I am late.
In short, the current system has the veneer of transparency and sharing of information but no real transparency or information.
PS: I finally arrived at my destination 5 hours delayed due to a missed connection ... time to get sleep ...
#23
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SFO and OAK
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Posts: 2,240
DOT stats actually matter. Pax don't matter.
Thanks for re-affirming what many have posted on FT about United viewing its customers as a nuisance.
#24
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: retired from SFO Terminal 3
Posts: 7,437
I worked a delayed flight last night and a customer asked me why it was late. I explained the situation with a runway being closed for repair, flight flow, yada yada and her response was we should have done something else instead of leaving late.
Anybody know how long it realistically takes to deplane a 767-400 and get it ready for the next flight?. Their first announcement was 7:00pm departure, with the inbound aircraft arriving at the gate at 5:55pm. Is 65 minutes even possible? (I guess not because they just rescheduled which gives them 95 minutes).
Boarding times vary due to carry on bag issues and wheelchair customers.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Oct 1, 2012 at 2:50 pm Reason: merge
#25
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Not the case. DOT reporting looks for patterns where there are things which can be done. Not just "ATC" but what type of ATC, where was the aircraft and so on. Not only is that type of data not capable of being placed on a monitor which has 10 characters for a delay reason, but it's irrelevant.
It's also true that the customer-facing reason for a delay is the "real" reason, it's just that the explanation can get a lot more complex, but won't affect departure. "Inbound aircraft" could mean that ATC slowed it down, it's been routed around WX, there was a MX at the last station and so on. But, as a pax what you need to know is that the flight is delayed and it's because tha aircraft isn't yet at the gate. Same thing when the crew is delayed. Why the crew is delayed is irrelevant to the waiting pax. But, DOT wants to figure out if the system is working.
It's also true that the customer-facing reason for a delay is the "real" reason, it's just that the explanation can get a lot more complex, but won't affect departure. "Inbound aircraft" could mean that ATC slowed it down, it's been routed around WX, there was a MX at the last station and so on. But, as a pax what you need to know is that the flight is delayed and it's because tha aircraft isn't yet at the gate. Same thing when the crew is delayed. Why the crew is delayed is irrelevant to the waiting pax. But, DOT wants to figure out if the system is working.
#26
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 27
I was on a DEN-IAH flight where the gate agent kept telling me she "didnt know the details of why the flight was delayed and that they were sorting it out". The plane sat at the gate for nearly 2 hours with "unknown issues." Everyone eventually boarded.. then after about 30mins of being seated, the pilot announced that we were de-planning due to COCKROACHES. That was quite disgusting and embarassing for UA at the same time.
#27
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: AA, DL, BA, WN
Posts: 4
Not the case. DOT reporting looks for patterns where there are things which can be done. Not just "ATC" but what type of ATC, where was the aircraft and so on. Not only is that type of data not capable of being placed on a monitor which has 10 characters for a delay reason, but it's irrelevant.
It's also true that the customer-facing reason for a delay is the "real" reason, it's just that the explanation can get a lot more complex, but won't affect departure. "Inbound aircraft" could mean that ATC slowed it down, it's been routed around WX, there was a MX at the last station and so on. But, as a pax what you need to know is that the flight is delayed and it's because tha aircraft isn't yet at the gate. Same thing when the crew is delayed. Why the crew is delayed is irrelevant to the waiting pax. But, DOT wants to figure out if the system is working.
It's also true that the customer-facing reason for a delay is the "real" reason, it's just that the explanation can get a lot more complex, but won't affect departure. "Inbound aircraft" could mean that ATC slowed it down, it's been routed around WX, there was a MX at the last station and so on. But, as a pax what you need to know is that the flight is delayed and it's because tha aircraft isn't yet at the gate. Same thing when the crew is delayed. Why the crew is delayed is irrelevant to the waiting pax. But, DOT wants to figure out if the system is working.
Got them rebooked in the last two seats together for a flight that evening and free bump to E+. But there just weren't many options for most pax. So, after sending the couple back out to town for the day, I kept checking flight status on the original flight. First, the status changed to awaiting inbound aircraft (though the plane never changed). Then, twice, the status again said the plane took off. Both times it was apparently pulled back to the gate. Finally, at 5:18pm HST, the system went from en route to cancelled. Obviously, this was a bigger problem than usually occurs, but for those who weren't fortunate to get off that flight, what a complete mess by United.
There were still pax from their original flight trying to get rebooked when they showed back up that evening.
#28
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Doylestown, PA, USA
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I thought this did matter
Maybe I'm wrong and things have changed.
In the case of cancellation (not delay), I always thought if it was United's "fault"-- i.e. MX or crew scheduling problems, you'd get your hotel comped, at least as a 1K.
For "out of our control problems" like awaiting inbound aircraft that runs into a crew day length problem, or a "weather" problem, they do nothing for you. That's why they always list every delay as ATC or weather.
Is this still the case?
I've been mostly international lately, so I'm out of the domestic loop.
cheers
ytjk
In the case of cancellation (not delay), I always thought if it was United's "fault"-- i.e. MX or crew scheduling problems, you'd get your hotel comped, at least as a 1K.
For "out of our control problems" like awaiting inbound aircraft that runs into a crew day length problem, or a "weather" problem, they do nothing for you. That's why they always list every delay as ATC or weather.
Is this still the case?
I've been mostly international lately, so I'm out of the domestic loop.
cheers
ytjk
#29
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,661
It's also true that the customer-facing reason for a delay is the "real" reason, it's just that the explanation can get a lot more complex, but won't affect departure. "Inbound aircraft" could mean that ATC slowed it down, it's been routed around WX, there was a MX at the last station and so on. But, as a pax what you need to know is that the flight is delayed and it's because tha aircraft isn't yet at the gate. Same thing when the crew is delayed. Why the crew is delayed is irrelevant to the waiting pax. But, DOT wants to figure out if the system is working.
One thing I'll give UA credit for is providing this information in a timely fashion. Sure, it changes, but that's often because OPS moves planes around when things don't go according to plan.
#30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Here and there
Programs: General member, former 1P
Posts: 583
Pax do matter BUT do you really what to know everything that occured prior to posting "await aircraft"?
I worked a delayed flight last night and a customer asked me why it was late. I explained the situation with a runway being closed for repair, flight flow, yada yada and her response was we should have done something else instead of leaving late.
I worked a delayed flight last night and a customer asked me why it was late. I explained the situation with a runway being closed for repair, flight flow, yada yada and her response was we should have done something else instead of leaving late.
That doesn't mean the majority of flyers overall want that information. That also doesn't mean that flyers -need- that information or that flyers are knowledgable consumers of that information. Again, I can see UA's reasons for not sharing every nugget of information. And if fare buckets (allegedly) confused (a few) people, this data would too.