I'm the sucker that paid for my UA "business first" seats
Sep 26, 2012, 11:03 pm
#61
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Singapore
Programs: TG*G, SQ, QF
Posts: 911
OP. For your IST trip next year I recommend you try TK comfort class. Basically a very good premium economy product with seats similar to the old UA business class recliners.
For travelling on your own dime, it hits the sweet spot for comfort vs value spot on. A flight that you wont be dreading, decent food and AV and a reasonable price
For travelling on your own dime, it hits the sweet spot for comfort vs value spot on. A flight that you wont be dreading, decent food and AV and a reasonable price
Sep 27, 2012, 12:07 am
#62
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Davis, California
Programs: MileagePlus Since Aug 2010, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 131
[QUOTE=KurtVH;19392057]
Your comment reminds me of the famous quote "Big winds come from empty caves" - Fred Sanford
Seriously..
... but when the inedible breakfast came (the sausage looked like a turd, seriously, and tasted worse...)
Seriously, I'm very confident, despite not being within a thousand miles of your flight while you were being served breakfast, that the sausage did not taste worse than a turd. That kind of hyperbole, besides being crass, makes your posts difficult to take "seriously".
Seriously, I'm very confident, despite not being within a thousand miles of your flight while you were being served breakfast, that the sausage did not taste worse than a turd. That kind of hyperbole, besides being crass, makes your posts difficult to take "seriously".
Seriously..
Sep 27, 2012, 12:08 am
#63
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ICT
Programs: AA EXP, UA Plat, DL G, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,330
I'm with you OP... I've been going back and forth to Germany this year (about once every 3 weeks), usually in J. I'm no fan of LH, although it is no nonsense and not as bad as you'd think.
My biggest issue is my bad luck on days/aircrafts. Whenever I'm flying, THAT's the day the 763 w flat beds gets swapped to a 762 recliner, or a new 772 to an old 772. Currently me next two TATLs (ORD-MUC and IAD-MUC) are on the old 772...
I always wanted to try OS or LX longhaul C, but the schedule never works for me...
My biggest issue is my bad luck on days/aircrafts. Whenever I'm flying, THAT's the day the 763 w flat beds gets swapped to a 762 recliner, or a new 772 to an old 772. Currently me next two TATLs (ORD-MUC and IAD-MUC) are on the old 772...
I always wanted to try OS or LX longhaul C, but the schedule never works for me...
Sep 27, 2012, 3:58 am
#64
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
Premium luxury should be what F is about and I don't think US based carriers can deliver in that market. But C should really be where they excel. The ingredients are there: world-class seats (except in the OP's anomalous case) a labor pool of service-oriented workers and a hospitality industry well schooled in dressing mutto up as lamb. However UA seems to employ too many people better suited to the DMV and succeeds in making lamb tougher than mutton (literally on my last flight in C).
Sadly the merger is resulting in the FAs feeling even more aggrieved, and the C food deteriorating from being quite acceptable to becoming totally inedible. How can a reheated greasy and chewy hamburger be considered acceptable in Business class?
Sadly the merger is resulting in the FAs feeling even more aggrieved, and the C food deteriorating from being quite acceptable to becoming totally inedible. How can a reheated greasy and chewy hamburger be considered acceptable in Business class?
The intl. F seat is the same - comparing it to a true suite product, which is in a pricing league above "regular" intl. F is not appropriate. Additionally, I completely disagree that the company couldn't offer up a truly upgraded and respectable soft product if they so desired. The seat itself is middle of the road for similar F products, which is fine given it's price/accessibility. I'm personally quite glad the company still offers a product where I don't have to worry about being woken up every few hours by a seat mate jumping over me. Nothing "world class" about that.
Last edited by tuolumne; Sep 27, 2012 at 4:03 am
Sep 27, 2012, 4:49 am
#65
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Rewards - LTPP
Posts: 4,240
Nice. So when you buy a car or home and complain about a defect, do you consider that first world problem? Well both are, but there is no reason why you should not expect to get what you paid for. So it goes with a business class seat. I cannot for the life of me fathom why these complaints are constantly belittled here, except possible that some of the belittlers cannot afford to pay for business class long haul and might be envious. But I'm sure that's not the case here. So why the hate?
Sep 27, 2012, 5:28 am
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,172
I've had nothing but warm, friendly, even joke-telling German FAs on my last few LH flights - they've been a pleasure. And the food quality has been fantastic, superior in F and C to that of UA.
Sep 27, 2012, 7:14 am
#67
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: BGM/ PHL
Programs: US (Silver, *A Silver), AA, Starbucks (Gold)
Posts: 2,242
The 380 was ordered long ago, before planning new seats. They have the same seats as other LH planes.
They *are* now buying new lie-flat seats and the first couple(?) planes are flying already, I believe FRA-IAD. But they're not going in the 380 first. I think the plane they went in first was a 340 or 330. I don't know how sure you can be to get the right plane either. I suspect they don't swap planes around as much as UA does but even so I'm sure there's no guarantee.
They *are* now buying new lie-flat seats and the first couple(?) planes are flying already, I believe FRA-IAD. But they're not going in the 380 first. I think the plane they went in first was a 340 or 330. I don't know how sure you can be to get the right plane either. I suspect they don't swap planes around as much as UA does but even so I'm sure there's no guarantee.
Sep 27, 2012, 5:50 pm
#68
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 246
OK, ok, I'm cracking up reading all the great replies. (It's "dudette" BTW, not "dude"...). In any event, sorry for offending sensitive folks with my use of the term "turd." I was totally out of line to suggest the sausage tasted worse than said item, since I wouldn't know, but I was so upset about not even being able to redeem my UA "apology" gift (is it a tote bag? ha ha).
Many of the points taken - I had sought advice from a super elite UA flyer who is one of my colleagues and he recommended UA over LH due to the not lie flat seats on LH and gave some warning about the old triple 7s, which is why I worked so hard to book a route that specifically was supposed to have the new one.
Anyway, once we flew BA, LAX-LHR-FRA and all they had left was F on the LHR-LAX leg of the return so I'm pretty much ruined now for "regular" air travel. Our young adult son was with us and he decided that in honor of the experience he would have every single thing on the menu - so he changed into the PJs and then had at it.
Because I don't have regular routes - the cities vary depending on where the conference or client is - it's hard to consistently fly one airline over another, but UA has been the easiest from SNA.
I didn't know about EXTRASEAT code so I'll look into that for CDG.
One problem with the codesharing is the following: next week I'm heading to YVR and booked on UA and it turned out it was an AC flight so I couldn't book seats. I called UA and they "requested" seats - which turned out to be the very last row of the plane. Come on! I called AC and they claim they assigned me different seats but it took 45 minutes, mostly on hold.
UA.com doesn't show the seats, so for all I know we're in two middle seats in the last row.
So if I fly the partner, do I book on the UA site or the partner site? And if I book on the partner site, how do I indicate I want the credit to go to UA? And what do you do about the seats?
I'm not the type who would leave upgrading to chance at check-in, even if it were cheaper. And I've looked into consolidators, but the reviews on FT seemed mixed, at best.
Many of the points taken - I had sought advice from a super elite UA flyer who is one of my colleagues and he recommended UA over LH due to the not lie flat seats on LH and gave some warning about the old triple 7s, which is why I worked so hard to book a route that specifically was supposed to have the new one.
Anyway, once we flew BA, LAX-LHR-FRA and all they had left was F on the LHR-LAX leg of the return so I'm pretty much ruined now for "regular" air travel. Our young adult son was with us and he decided that in honor of the experience he would have every single thing on the menu - so he changed into the PJs and then had at it.
Because I don't have regular routes - the cities vary depending on where the conference or client is - it's hard to consistently fly one airline over another, but UA has been the easiest from SNA.
I didn't know about EXTRASEAT code so I'll look into that for CDG.
One problem with the codesharing is the following: next week I'm heading to YVR and booked on UA and it turned out it was an AC flight so I couldn't book seats. I called UA and they "requested" seats - which turned out to be the very last row of the plane. Come on! I called AC and they claim they assigned me different seats but it took 45 minutes, mostly on hold.
UA.com doesn't show the seats, so for all I know we're in two middle seats in the last row.
So if I fly the partner, do I book on the UA site or the partner site? And if I book on the partner site, how do I indicate I want the credit to go to UA? And what do you do about the seats?
I'm not the type who would leave upgrading to chance at check-in, even if it were cheaper. And I've looked into consolidators, but the reviews on FT seemed mixed, at best.
Sep 27, 2012, 6:08 pm
#69
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,393
OK, ok, I'm cracking up reading all the great replies. (It's "dudette" BTW, not "dude"...). In any event, sorry for offending sensitive folks with my use of the term "turd." I was totally out of line to suggest the sausage tasted worse than said item, since I wouldn't know, but I was so upset about not even being able to redeem my UA "apology" gift (is it a tote bag? ha ha).
Many of the points taken - I had sought advice from a super elite UA flyer who is one of my colleagues and he recommended UA over LH due to the not lie flat seats on LH and gave some warning about the old triple 7s, which is why I worked so hard to book a route that specifically was supposed to have the new one.
Anyway, once we flew BA, LAX-LHR-FRA and all they had left was F on the LHR-LAX leg of the return so I'm pretty much ruined now for "regular" air travel. Our young adult son was with us and he decided that in honor of the experience he would have every single thing on the menu - so he changed into the PJs and then had at it.
Because I don't have regular routes - the cities vary depending on where the conference or client is - it's hard to consistently fly one airline over another, but UA has been the easiest from SNA.
I didn't know about EXTRASEAT code so I'll look into that for CDG.
One problem with the codesharing is the following: next week I'm heading to YVR and booked on UA and it turned out it was an AC flight so I couldn't book seats. I called UA and they "requested" seats - which turned out to be the very last row of the plane. Come on! I called AC and they claim they assigned me different seats but it took 45 minutes, mostly on hold.
UA.com doesn't show the seats, so for all I know we're in two middle seats in the last row.
So if I fly the partner, do I book on the UA site or the partner site? And if I book on the partner site, how do I indicate I want the credit to go to UA? And what do you do about the seats?
I'm not the type who would leave upgrading to chance at check-in, even if it were cheaper. And I've looked into consolidators, but the reviews on FT seemed mixed, at best.
Many of the points taken - I had sought advice from a super elite UA flyer who is one of my colleagues and he recommended UA over LH due to the not lie flat seats on LH and gave some warning about the old triple 7s, which is why I worked so hard to book a route that specifically was supposed to have the new one.
Anyway, once we flew BA, LAX-LHR-FRA and all they had left was F on the LHR-LAX leg of the return so I'm pretty much ruined now for "regular" air travel. Our young adult son was with us and he decided that in honor of the experience he would have every single thing on the menu - so he changed into the PJs and then had at it.
Because I don't have regular routes - the cities vary depending on where the conference or client is - it's hard to consistently fly one airline over another, but UA has been the easiest from SNA.
I didn't know about EXTRASEAT code so I'll look into that for CDG.
One problem with the codesharing is the following: next week I'm heading to YVR and booked on UA and it turned out it was an AC flight so I couldn't book seats. I called UA and they "requested" seats - which turned out to be the very last row of the plane. Come on! I called AC and they claim they assigned me different seats but it took 45 minutes, mostly on hold.
UA.com doesn't show the seats, so for all I know we're in two middle seats in the last row.
So if I fly the partner, do I book on the UA site or the partner site? And if I book on the partner site, how do I indicate I want the credit to go to UA? And what do you do about the seats?
I'm not the type who would leave upgrading to chance at check-in, even if it were cheaper. And I've looked into consolidators, but the reviews on FT seemed mixed, at best.
You'll see often other carriers have CHEAPER F fares than UA. As a rule of thumb, EVERY foreign F is nicer than US Carriers.
Sep 27, 2012, 6:16 pm
#70
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: UA1K .455 MM, Hilton and Marriott Gold
Posts: 397
That is not really accurate...
Apple is an American product that designs a truly premium product in its category.
Many American fashion designers produce some of the best most-sought after clothes in the world, ranging from Ralph Lauren and Calvin Klein, to Marc Jacobs and Kate Spade.
Some of the most luxurious hotels in the world are owned and operated by American companies.
Top-end American appliances makers are among the best in the world.
Same with top-end American furniture manufacturers.
And, of course, there has been an absolute explosion of high-end American artisans in many product areas, ranging from microbrews, to artisanal cheeses and chocolates.
American wines have been winning awards in the most demanding competition for decades now...
Etc.
Apple is an American product that designs a truly premium product in its category.
Many American fashion designers produce some of the best most-sought after clothes in the world, ranging from Ralph Lauren and Calvin Klein, to Marc Jacobs and Kate Spade.
Some of the most luxurious hotels in the world are owned and operated by American companies.
Top-end American appliances makers are among the best in the world.
Same with top-end American furniture manufacturers.
And, of course, there has been an absolute explosion of high-end American artisans in many product areas, ranging from microbrews, to artisanal cheeses and chocolates.
American wines have been winning awards in the most demanding competition for decades now...
Etc.
Yes...still the crappy slants.....just now there are almost 100 of them!
Last edited by iluv2fly; Sep 27, 2012 at 7:48 pm Reason: merge
Sep 27, 2012, 8:37 pm
#71
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP, DL Silver, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Gold, HHonor Gold, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 352
Sep 27, 2012, 9:07 pm
#72
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Programs: JAL Global Club & oneworld Sapphire, ANA SFC & Star Alliance Gold
Posts: 3,761
If you are actually paying for business class, there are three essential rules for international travel:
1. Never fly a US airline.
2. Never fly a US airline.
3. Never fly a US airline.
If you want to collect UA miles to gain status, one option is to fly a Star Alliance airline and credit miles to UA.
Here in Japan, I am lucky to be able to fly two world-class airlines: JAL and ANA. They are both worlds ahead of any US airline in every respect.
1. Never fly a US airline.
2. Never fly a US airline.
3. Never fly a US airline.
If you want to collect UA miles to gain status, one option is to fly a Star Alliance airline and credit miles to UA.
Here in Japan, I am lucky to be able to fly two world-class airlines: JAL and ANA. They are both worlds ahead of any US airline in every respect.
Sep 27, 2012, 9:15 pm
#73
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP, DL Silver, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Gold, HHonor Gold, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 352
Sep 27, 2012, 9:43 pm
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Programs: DL SM Plat, B6 TrueBlue, UA MP, AAdvantage
Posts: 10,008
First, the value of J is a combination of product quality and price.
Yes, there are outstanding J products out there, mostly really expensive. J on U.S. carriers is often not quite at the pinnacle of excellence, but also often a great value.
I used to fly CO J constantly. It was an excellent product overall--better, incidentally than many foreign carrier J classes--and could often be had at an incredible bargain.
I flew EWR-CDG on CO J once for under $1,100 round trip. My experience on those flights was outstanding, definitely comparable to the best Euro J of the time (mid 2000's).
And then there is plenty of very pedestrian foreign J, especially among the second-tier European carriers, but also among the second tier of Asian carriers.
I know that J on UA is currently more miss than hit, but US Envoy Class J is quite a good product, always very competitively priced.
Since I always pay for my own, I would much rather suffer a slight drop in quality and fly UA J for a reasonable cost than, for example, QF J to Australia for upward of $14,000 to fly on QF's J which, while perhaps slightly better, is hardly worlds ahead of UA J.
Sep 27, 2012, 9:45 pm
#75
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Programs: JAL Global Club & oneworld Sapphire, ANA SFC & Star Alliance Gold
Posts: 3,761
ANA has premium economy (8-across and 38 inches of pitch) into which elites are upgraded for free on the day of departure. ANA's newest long-haul economy product has 34 inches of pitch (as compared to the industry standard for E- of 31-32 inches). That's ANA's E-minus, their lowest class of service.
JAL also has premium economy which they will soon enhance to offer 42 inches of pitch (up from the current 38). They don't give free upgrades like ANA, but their upcoming new economy seats will also have 34 inches of pitch.
Last edited by Unimatrix One; Sep 27, 2012 at 9:53 pm