Well if this is their plan you sure could have fooled me, EWR-BRU and EWR-ZRH went from PMCO planes (2 cabin) to PMUA with 3 cabins! Im sure teher are others as well

I see it that they will fly a 3 cabin wherever it is that they feel they can actually sell F or high C and due to contracts UP them to F, no sense flyinga 3 cabin where F is all cheap C UPs or non-revs or award seats

I believe the only 2 cabin for now will be LAX-NRT so go via SFO and the 744, if on the EC theres IAD and ORD for now with 3 cabin. The question is where will CO deploy the 787s as they arrive, on new routes as many thought or onto existing routes and cutting out F

When the 787s arrive and start doing international flights a couple of them will be taking over LAX - NRT, LAX - PVG from sUA. Other international routes that will see 787 for about a few months are IAH - AMS, IAH - LHR. IAH - LOS, DEN - NRT will see 787 on a permanent basis.

They are juggling the current equipment they have around, doesn't mean they would have the 3 cabin if they had a choice. There's a reason they kept the BF monkier around - Global First is a product the Houston gang wish they never had.

There's little doubt anymore the CO model of having only 2 classes of service is the one that would win out if the current regime had any choice. No matter what the apologists may try and sell, there is an F market, the company has made a strategic decision to stop chasing/ceed it (p.s.). The comparison to "top tier" suite products, priced well above UA F, is, unsurprisingly, intellectually dishonest. Not to mention the accessibility of UA's F cabins to FFs. Always interesting to see customers cheering for the rcalibration of the company's top prodct downwards, especially when said product has relatively low barriers to entry.

Lastly, at the current time, there is nothing benefitting of the "First" in BusinessFirst when you consider the midpack product being offered. No direct aisle access and relatively cramped bedding lengths being the main offenders.

Changes coming to NRT - SIN flights.
 

If my GPU clears for 12/30 I might end up one of the last flu this route in F

was referring to NRT but youre correct DEN-NRT will be there but if Im correct there isnt any DEN-NRT right now so its not like LAX where its going from a 3 to a 2 cabin, its going from 0 cabins to 2 cabins

I was trying to pt out to the other person that for now there still will be routes with F to NRT just not LAX or the new DEN in regards to PMUA routes

:confused: why then did they put a PMUA 763 EWR-ZRH when they wre using a PMCO 762? the same with EWR-BRU where all they did was switch a 2 cabin PMCO for a 3 cabin PMUA both were 777s

There is lots of demand for F service on UA between NRT-SIN, just not by people who will pay for it. I guarantee that anyone complaining about this on FT does not buy full F on this route, if they did they certainly would not be spending the money on UA's F. they are angry about their award seats or upgrades (for the few that even buy C/D). I hate this change as well but UA isn't stupid, they can see the last 10 times I paid for F coming from Singapore it was on SQ. The last time I paid for F coming from anywhere in Asia on UA was around 2006/7

Paid F demand > artificial F demand (upgrades and FF redemption). Although the business case for offering F as a carrot to drive full fare J traffic (+ SWU) makes sense, the fact is the merger brings more markets to the fold which generate strong F demand. See EWR-BRU/ZRH/GVA, forthcoming IAH-LHR, and other routes where 3-cabin aircraft have replaced 2-cabin (some periodically, like EWR-FCO).

United would be stupid not to move 3-cabin aircraft to those markets. Of course, while transitioning F off historical UA routes may be viewed as yet another egregious affront to UA flyers by CO management intent on ruining the airline, it's really just a publicly-traded corporation allocating its resources in what it believes to be the most profitable manner.

UA is not willing to really invest into a FC product. If they offered a real FC product, something that distinguishes them from or puts them in line with other carriers known for a dedicated FC product, then they might have a chance. But no U.S. carrier does anything like that. I was in AA FC from NRT and it felt exactly like US Envoy. I would have been p'''''''d to pay full price for it. A suite? Different story.

This is exactly right. Intl. F on US airlines is on its way out - it simply does not make sense to keep that cabin there predominantly for upgrades. The comment further up in the thread about "low barrier to entry" for an F product is completely naive - you need to invest vast amounts of money in an intl. F product - and have customers that will pay top dollar for those seats - before it can be viable. There is zero evidence of that being something that either UA or AA wants to do, so the best approach is to get rid of it.

No doubt about it. I used to pay for F on UA when they had the LAX-HKG non stop. It was never quite as good as CX but at least UA spent some $$ on catering (they even served Dom), walked F pax to the plane, & believe it or not, those old cloth recliner seats were as comfortable as anyone else's seats (including SQ). Seats were pretty standard thruout the industry except BA had the first generation suites & NH had recliners that went full flat (which was a big deal). We are not talking about the 70's here. This was 1999-2000

Maybe UA could try something unique. Like gourmet food, turndown service, enthusiastic f/a's that are as excited to be on the plane as you are, private suites w a mini bar, shower spas, a lounge w table service on board.......they would do very well. They could call it......Emirates :)

I think the key CodbaUA mantra these days appears to be lets forget investing in a product that will make us competitive, instead lets just not offer the product! :D Anyone who wants to pay F can just go to BA, SQ, etc - great business sense!

I fly a lot of GF but it's all UG and award. I know a lot of people who are in the same boat, and frankly without GF there will be no compelling reason to pick UA over another carrier. Within a year, DL will have caught up on J conversion and surpassed UA with a better flat-bed product. IMHO UA will start hemorrhaging if they get rid of GF.

Think of domestic, how many 1Ks would stick with UA if there were no domestic F.

If they were smart, UA would make Z fares upgradeable with 2 GPUs and have their non-revs ride in the back.

On top of that they should make cheap economy fares upgradeable with 2 GPU and give out more GPUs (e.g. 8 at 100k PQM and 2 for each additional 25k) or they should give a bigger EQM bonuses for paid BF and GF.

The days of just a few very large aircraft flying the main TPAC routes are over and businesses are cutting down on allowing paid J. I think the carriers are going to be struggling for new ways to keep PRASM from falling out of bed on the pacific routes.

Which is why BA, LH, QF, CX are removing F seats from their flee, because demand is going u-wait, what? You mean a lot of airlines are removing first class from a number of their planes? That aren't USA-based airlines?

Additional fun fact: airlines are finding that Y+ cabins (real premium Y+, not E+) actually make more money per square inch than F cabins- they are the most lucrative cabins they can offer. Not coincidentally, airlines like CX and QF are going from F/C/Y cabins to C/Y+/Y.

The fact of the matter is the F cabin on a lot of airlines is like the joke about the million dollar glass of lemonade- "I only need to sell one!", with employees/upgraders/FTers who have figured out the latest arbitrage scheme rounding out the cabin. A lot of airlnes have figured out that offering products that consistently sell and fill the plane is more profitable than trying to sell that million dollar glass of lemonade, while incurring the costs of stocking caviar, JWB and Krug. And the fact of the matter is C/J now has a hard product that blows away the F of 20 years ago. Why not pay for your Michelin cuisine on the ground instead of at a 10x premium (and blast-chilled/reheated to boot) in a hurtling aluminum tube, eat and drink something that is simply edible/drinkable instead of a fake gourmet experience, and use the plane to sleep and watch some TV in reasonable comfort?

Perhaps if they were to consider a congress of chefs and sommeliers?

Recently flew LAX - HND on NH. The red-eye is certainly the way to go vs UA, even if the product isn't stellar.