I was on a UX flight to Detroit today. During parts of the flights, turbulence was mild to moderate and the seat belt sign came on on a few occasions.
During one the times the seat belt sign was off, I retrieved my bag from the overhead bin, as I was seated in a bulk head. I worked for most of the flight, and when it was time to "prepare the cabin for landing", the seat belt sign was on.
Now, I understand you can't have anything in the bulk head during take-off and landing, but I also never get up when the seat belt sign is on.
After I had put away my bag, the flight attendant told me to stow it for landing. When she came around again, I asked her if she wouldn't mind stowing my bag for landing, as the seat belt sign was on, and I was not comfortable getting up at that time.
She told me I needed to stow my bag, as she was not allowed to handle bags - her words.
At that point, I held my bag up to her, as she was stowing her purse (bulkhead E170), and asked her again if she wouldn't mind putting it in the closet with her bag.
She refused and told me she'd call the captain. She called the captain and asked for someone to meet us at the gate. After landing, as we departed, she went into the cockpit to complain about me, and I deboarded at that time.
I know it would have taken me maybe 10-15 seconds to stow my bag. However, I really don't want to get up when that seatbelt sign is on, and we had already had some turbulence.
Was I being unreasonable asking the FA to stow my bag for me?
During one the times the seat belt sign was off, I retrieved my bag from the overhead bin, as I was seated in a bulk head. I worked for most of the flight, and when it was time to "prepare the cabin for landing", the seat belt sign was on.
Now, I understand you can't have anything in the bulk head during take-off and landing, but I also never get up when the seat belt sign is on.
After I had put away my bag, the flight attendant told me to stow it for landing. When she came around again, I asked her if she wouldn't mind stowing my bag for landing, as the seat belt sign was on, and I was not comfortable getting up at that time.
She told me I needed to stow my bag, as she was not allowed to handle bags - her words.
At that point, I held my bag up to her, as she was stowing her purse (bulkhead E170), and asked her again if she wouldn't mind putting it in the closet with her bag.
She refused and told me she'd call the captain. She called the captain and asked for someone to meet us at the gate. After landing, as we departed, she went into the cockpit to complain about me, and I deboarded at that time.
I know it would have taken me maybe 10-15 seconds to stow my bag. However, I really don't want to get up when that seatbelt sign is on, and we had already had some turbulence.
Was I being unreasonable asking the FA to stow my bag for me?
Quote:
During one the times the seat belt sign was off, I retrieved my bag from the overhead bin, as I was seated in a bulk head. I worked for most of the flight, and when it was time to "prepare the cabin for landing", the seat belt sign was on.
Now, I understand you can't have anything in the bulk head during take-off and landing, but I also never get up when the seat belt sign is on.
After I had put away my bag, the flight attendant told me to stow it for landing. When she came around again, I asked her if she wouldn't mind stowing my bag for landing, as the seat belt sign was on, and I was not comfortable getting up at that time.
She told me I needed to stow my bag, as she was not allowed to handle bags - her words.
At that point, I held my bag up to her, as she was stowing her purse (bulkhead E170), and asked her again if she wouldn't mind putting it in the closet with her bag.
She refused and told me she'd call the captain. She called the captain and asked for someone to meet us at the gate. After landing, as we departed, she went into the cockpit to complain about me, and I deboarded at that time.
I know it would have taken me maybe 10-15 seconds to stow my bag. However, I really don't want to get up when that seatbelt sign is on, and we had already had some turbulence.
Was I being unreasonable asking the FA to stow my bag for me?
Contract & Union issues prohibit FAs from actually lifting your carry-on into the overhead bin, now they may shift stuff around to make room for yours, but they can't physically lift yours up.Originally Posted by dimramon
I was on a UX flight to Detroit today. During parts of the flights, turbulence was mild to moderate and the seat belt sign came on on a few occasions.During one the times the seat belt sign was off, I retrieved my bag from the overhead bin, as I was seated in a bulk head. I worked for most of the flight, and when it was time to "prepare the cabin for landing", the seat belt sign was on.
Now, I understand you can't have anything in the bulk head during take-off and landing, but I also never get up when the seat belt sign is on.
After I had put away my bag, the flight attendant told me to stow it for landing. When she came around again, I asked her if she wouldn't mind stowing my bag for landing, as the seat belt sign was on, and I was not comfortable getting up at that time.
She told me I needed to stow my bag, as she was not allowed to handle bags - her words.
At that point, I held my bag up to her, as she was stowing her purse (bulkhead E170), and asked her again if she wouldn't mind putting it in the closet with her bag.
She refused and told me she'd call the captain. She called the captain and asked for someone to meet us at the gate. After landing, as we departed, she went into the cockpit to complain about me, and I deboarded at that time.
I know it would have taken me maybe 10-15 seconds to stow my bag. However, I really don't want to get up when that seatbelt sign is on, and we had already had some turbulence.
Was I being unreasonable asking the FA to stow my bag for me?
Quote:
That's interesting, because I've had FA's remove and stow my bag a few times when I was sitting in a bulkhead seat.Originally Posted by JOSECONLSCREW28
Contract & Union issues prohibit FAs from actually lifting your carry-on into the overhead bin, now they may shift stuff around to make room for yours, but they can't physically lift yours up.
Suspended
Use some common sense and stow your bag when requested. I don't buy your bit about "didn't want to get up with seatbelt sign on."
Sounds like you got into a power struggle with the FA and are trying to justify your actions. Don't be silly.
Of course the FA was being silly as well, but that doesn't excuse either of you.
Sounds like you got into a power struggle with the FA and are trying to justify your actions. Don't be silly.
Of course the FA was being silly as well, but that doesn't excuse either of you.
I would have just gotten up to stow my bag, as you say it would have only taken 10-15 sec.
On a flight last week I was wedged into a window seat and could notngetnout past the person in the middle and a mom with lap infant. Mi asked the passing FA if she would pas me my very small laptop bag out of the bin, since this too was a bulkhead and I could keep it by me for take off. By theis time we were at maybe 20,000 feet and still in a nice smooth climb. The FA said she could not retrieve it for me "while the aircraft is unstable." eventually the guy across the aisle got up and I asked him to hand it to me, but would it really have been that taxing or dangerous for her to pass it to me so as not to wake the sleeping baby?
Sounds like a catch-22 to me.
a) When the seatbelt sign is on passengers are supposed to remain seated with their seatbels fastened securely around their waists.
b) Luggage is not permitted on the floor of the bulkhead row during taxi, takeoff and landing.
c) It is a physical impossibility for must human beings to place something in the overhead bin while seated with the seatbelt fastened.
d) The FA is contractually prohibited from stowing the passenger's luggage (although I've seen more than one FA "place" luggage for a passenger).
It seems that the only solution that would allow for no rules to be broken would be for the captain to abort the landing, find clear skies where he or she can turn off the seatbelt sign, have the pax stow his or her luggage, then resume the approach and landing.
a) When the seatbelt sign is on passengers are supposed to remain seated with their seatbels fastened securely around their waists.
b) Luggage is not permitted on the floor of the bulkhead row during taxi, takeoff and landing.
c) It is a physical impossibility for must human beings to place something in the overhead bin while seated with the seatbelt fastened.
d) The FA is contractually prohibited from stowing the passenger's luggage (although I've seen more than one FA "place" luggage for a passenger).
It seems that the only solution that would allow for no rules to be broken would be for the captain to abort the landing, find clear skies where he or she can turn off the seatbelt sign, have the pax stow his or her luggage, then resume the approach and landing.
Quote:
a) When the seatbelt sign is on passengers are supposed to remain seated with their seatbels fastened securely around their waists.
b) Luggage is not permitted on the floor of the bulkhead row during taxi, takeoff and landing.
c) It is a physical impossibility for must human beings to place something in the overhead bin while seated with the seatbelt fastened.
d) The FA is contractually prohibited from stowing the passenger's luggage (although I've seen more than one FA "place" luggage for a passenger).
It seems that the only solution that would allow for no rules to be broken would be for the captain to abort the landing, find clear skies where he or she can turn off the seatbelt sign, have the pax stow his or her luggage, then resume the approach and landing.
Finally a common sense and logical suggestion Originally Posted by kale73
Sounds like a catch-22 to me.a) When the seatbelt sign is on passengers are supposed to remain seated with their seatbels fastened securely around their waists.
b) Luggage is not permitted on the floor of the bulkhead row during taxi, takeoff and landing.
c) It is a physical impossibility for must human beings to place something in the overhead bin while seated with the seatbelt fastened.
d) The FA is contractually prohibited from stowing the passenger's luggage (although I've seen more than one FA "place" luggage for a passenger).
It seems that the only solution that would allow for no rules to be broken would be for the captain to abort the landing, find clear skies where he or she can turn off the seatbelt sign, have the pax stow his or her luggage, then resume the approach and landing.
Quote:
a) When the seatbelt sign is on passengers are supposed to remain seated with their seatbels fastened securely around their waists.
b) Luggage is not permitted on the floor of the bulkhead row during taxi, takeoff and landing.
c) It is a physical impossibility for must human beings to place something in the overhead bin while seated with the seatbelt fastened.
d) The FA is contractually prohibited from stowing the passenger's luggage (although I've seen more than one FA "place" luggage for a passenger).
It seems that the only solution that would allow for no rules to be broken would be for the captain to abort the landing, find clear skies where he or she can turn off the seatbelt sign, have the pax stow his or her luggage, then resume the approach and landing.
Throw a "follow crew members instructions" in there somewhere and voila, problem solved :-)Originally Posted by kale73
Sounds like a catch-22 to me.a) When the seatbelt sign is on passengers are supposed to remain seated with their seatbels fastened securely around their waists.
b) Luggage is not permitted on the floor of the bulkhead row during taxi, takeoff and landing.
c) It is a physical impossibility for must human beings to place something in the overhead bin while seated with the seatbelt fastened.
d) The FA is contractually prohibited from stowing the passenger's luggage (although I've seen more than one FA "place" luggage for a passenger).
It seems that the only solution that would allow for no rules to be broken would be for the captain to abort the landing, find clear skies where he or she can turn off the seatbelt sign, have the pax stow his or her luggage, then resume the approach and landing.
"common sense" is not the issue here. What would have happened if the op got up to stow their bag and turbulence hit causing the op to injure themselves or someone else?
I think the correct course of action in this case would have been for the FA to take the bag to a locker/cupboard where it could be stored safely and without the FA having to lift it (FA's do this all the time). And if there was no space in such a place ? I don't know. Which rule takes precedence?
I think the correct course of action in this case would have been for the FA to take the bag to a locker/cupboard where it could be stored safely and without the FA having to lift it (FA's do this all the time). And if there was no space in such a place ? I don't know. Which rule takes precedence?
If I ask an FA for a favor (and in this case this is really a favor) and the FA says no, I take it as a no. I generally don't ask twice.
If you genuinely thought that you couldn't get up with the seatbelt light on, then you could have just politely asked if it was OK to get up.
If you genuinely thought that you couldn't get up with the seatbelt light on, then you could have just politely asked if it was OK to get up.
For some reason I find this situation very interesting. In our exceedingly over litigious society (imo), I'm interested if UA has a procedure for this.
On one hand, it is airline policy for the pax to remain seated when the seatbelt sign is one. In reality, this is really a loose procedure I only see enforced during taxi, first 15000 feet or so, moderate turbulence, and last ~15 min before touchdown. There are plenty of times when the sign is on and people are up and about.
Otoh, pax must comply with instructions given by the crew. While I could understand situations where crew instruction takes clear precedence over any other written rules, telling a passenger to unbuckle and stand up when in the airlines own words it is "unsafe to be up and about when the fastened seatbelt sign is illuminated" could pose problems for the FA.
It's happened to everyone where the ride is smooth and you get up to use the restroom and then it seems the air picks that exact moment you're walking back to hit some CAT.
I would believe that pax safety takes priority over a contract agreement. (Safety is of course the number one priority) It seems that if the pax was ordered to stand up and stow the bag and got injured by turbulence, one could make a very legitimate case for the pax that the FA acted with clear negligence of the captain's orders.
On more than one occasion, I've heard FA's say that they are there for your safety. If having an item is unsafe for landing, it seems it is the FA's responsibility to stow the bag. If no bags for bulkhead are an FAA policy it seems that would take precedence over the UA FA contract agreement.
My 2 centimes.
On one hand, it is airline policy for the pax to remain seated when the seatbelt sign is one. In reality, this is really a loose procedure I only see enforced during taxi, first 15000 feet or so, moderate turbulence, and last ~15 min before touchdown. There are plenty of times when the sign is on and people are up and about.
Otoh, pax must comply with instructions given by the crew. While I could understand situations where crew instruction takes clear precedence over any other written rules, telling a passenger to unbuckle and stand up when in the airlines own words it is "unsafe to be up and about when the fastened seatbelt sign is illuminated" could pose problems for the FA.
It's happened to everyone where the ride is smooth and you get up to use the restroom and then it seems the air picks that exact moment you're walking back to hit some CAT.
I would believe that pax safety takes priority over a contract agreement. (Safety is of course the number one priority) It seems that if the pax was ordered to stand up and stow the bag and got injured by turbulence, one could make a very legitimate case for the pax that the FA acted with clear negligence of the captain's orders.
On more than one occasion, I've heard FA's say that they are there for your safety. If having an item is unsafe for landing, it seems it is the FA's responsibility to stow the bag. If no bags for bulkhead are an FAA policy it seems that would take precedence over the UA FA contract agreement.
My 2 centimes.
Quote:
Common sense and union work rules are many times mutually exclusive.Originally Posted by 15cats
On more than one occasion, I've heard FA's say that they are there for your safety. If having an item is unsafe for landing, it seems it is the FA's responsibility to stow the bag. If no bags for bulkhead are an FAA policy it seems that would take precedence over the UA FA contract agreement.
I have seen flight attendants stow carry on bags innumerable times. I suspect it was a combination of the way the OP asked, and the FA having a bad day.
SunLover
Quote:
I have seen flight attendants stow carry on bags innumerable times. I suspect it was a combination of the way the OP asked, and the FA having a bad day.
SunLover
It's more about insurance issues than it is about "union rules".Originally Posted by SunLover
Common sense and union work rules are many times mutually exclusive.I have seen flight attendants stow carry on bags innumerable times. I suspect it was a combination of the way the OP asked, and the FA having a bad day.
SunLover
Quote:
Was on a flight from Orlando to Washington and there was a mother with three toddlers. The flight attendant had no problem at all helping her put the bags in the overhead locker. Never knew about the union/contract issues but it is nice to see the flight attendant use her common sense and help.Originally Posted by JOSECONLSCREW28
Contract & Union issues prohibit FAs from actually lifting your carry-on into the overhead bin, now they may shift stuff around to make room for yours, but they can't physically lift yours up.