Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
May 26, 2012, 11:29 am
#46
Join Date: Aug 2004
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United certainly announced the changes to the MM program well outside the mandated timeframe required per their T&C.
I am sure a "lifetime benefit" cannot be withdrawn under such a perspective. The semantics of this offer overrides the general T&Cs.
May 26, 2012, 12:18 pm
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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f already earned miles?
May 26, 2012, 12:36 pm
#48
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And that is the point.
Imagine you bought a car and the dealer, as part of the transaction, provides routine maintenance and replacement of worn out parts at no cost to you for a period of 3 years. At year 2, he changes the definition of routine maintenance for the new cars being sold to not include replacement of worn parts.
What are your expectations when you bring in your car to have a dead battery replaced.
What are your expectations for a new care you are purchasing today?
Imagine you bought a car and the dealer, as part of the transaction, provides routine maintenance and replacement of worn out parts at no cost to you for a period of 3 years. At year 2, he changes the definition of routine maintenance for the new cars being sold to not include replacement of worn parts.
What are your expectations when you bring in your car to have a dead battery replaced.
What are your expectations for a new care you are purchasing today?
May 26, 2012, 12:50 pm
#49
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A better example would be if your dealer offered you supplementary benefits outside of the purchase agreement such as courtesy loaner vehicles or complimentary access to a car wash. The supplementary benefits could be temporarily or permanently suspended without recourse; could you imagine someone arguing they bought a car for the purpose of being able to wash it for free and proving they were damaged when that benefit was modified?
May 26, 2012, 12:57 pm
#50
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No, I'm not missing the point. There's a difference between promoting an ancillary benefit (for which no consideration is asked for or offered) and being contractually obligated to provide it in perpetuity for every customer.
May 26, 2012, 1:33 pm
#51
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: UA 1K 1MM (finally!), IHG AMB-Spire, HH Diamond
Posts: 60,174
I think the lifetime angle and customer reliance on the promotion are worth exploring, if only to make it clear for consumers going forward whether they should consider those types of things or not.
May 26, 2012, 2:37 pm
#52
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
There was a post somewhere on here that asked fellow GS how much did they spend to get it and the numbers were all over the place.
The consideration being asked is up to UA. They are offering lifetime benefits.
I think the lifetime angle and customer reliance on the promotion are worth exploring, if only to make it clear for consumers going forward whether they should consider those types of things or not.
I think the lifetime angle and customer reliance on the promotion are worth exploring, if only to make it clear for consumers going forward whether they should consider those types of things or not.
Personally, I understand the year to year changes an airline can make to their frequent flyer program. But what happens, as many others have stated on this site (and on others as well), when a company promotes over years and years "lifetime benefits" only to change it? That's the question -
From the beginning of time, man has been debating issues; it is a part of who we are. They did in Athens around 400 B.C. and we do it today. It's quite awesome.
UG
Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; May 26, 2012 at 3:47 pm Reason: multi-quote
May 26, 2012, 3:39 pm
#53
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The consideration being asked is up to UA. They are offering lifetime benefits.
I think the lifetime angle and customer reliance on the promotion are worth exploring, if only to make it clear for consumers going forward whether they should consider those types of things or not.
I think the lifetime angle and customer reliance on the promotion are worth exploring, if only to make it clear for consumers going forward whether they should consider those types of things or not.
May 26, 2012, 4:22 pm
#54
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1) The contract was for 100% bonus RDMs for life rather than whatever the associated MP level gets.
2) The contract was for the second highest tier rather than the tier associate with 50K EQMs or the second lowest, both of which the 1P status also was.
3) "The second to top tier in the Mileage Plus Program was the Million Miler status" (and that's a direct quote from the filing).
May 26, 2012, 4:34 pm
#55
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Moreover, I think it will be incredibly difficult to prove the claims that:
1) The contract was for 100% bonus RDMs for life rather than whatever the associated MP level gets.
2) The contract was for the second highest tier rather than the tier associate with 50K EQMs or the second lowest, both of which the 1P status also was.
3) "The second to top tier in the Mileage Plus Program was the Million Miler status" (and that's a direct quote from the filing).
1) The contract was for 100% bonus RDMs for life rather than whatever the associated MP level gets.
2) The contract was for the second highest tier rather than the tier associate with 50K EQMs or the second lowest, both of which the 1P status also was.
3) "The second to top tier in the Mileage Plus Program was the Million Miler status" (and that's a direct quote from the filing).
May 26, 2012, 4:37 pm
#56
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near SEA
Programs: UA MM, AS MVPG75K, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 7,969
How much should it cost to get to MMiler? I have spent a fortune over the years. I've seen some numbers floating around...what is the average per mile one should pay for a coach seat (I saw $.03 a mile)? Biz? First? Someone can spend $200,000 a year traveling 100,000 miles on international F class while someone else $5000 on domestic W. It's all relative, no?
$237k is $0.24/mi BIS which is about 4-6x what most of my flights are. I occasionally have short flights which run $0.12/mi BIS, but I'd struggle to find any flight I've ever taken at $0.24/mi BIS let alone double that to equal out the lower cpBIS flights.
Sure, those flying Int'l premium cabins could easily spend $237k without making 0.5MM... I guess now that I think of it, would be interesting to see the average % of miles from Y/C/F fares for a MM. Willing to bet it skews far (80%+) to Y, but I have nothing to prove this.
When I mentioned LOLing, it was because the average flyers I know who have hit MMer have done it on 95%+ Y fares, far below $0.24/mi BIS.
May 26, 2012, 5:18 pm
#57
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
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believe for UA the average passenger rev has been around 12+ cpm (or cpBIS)for the past few years (and other legacy airlines were similar). With no data, I would suspect the average business flyer is above that level (based on assuming the leisure flyer makes better use of advance fares and is picker on choosing flights on cost).
May 26, 2012, 5:51 pm
#58
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
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Moreover, I think it will be incredibly difficult to prove the claims that:
1) The contract was for 100% bonus RDMs for life rather than whatever the associated MP level gets.
2) The contract was for the second highest tier rather than the tier associate with 50K EQMs or the second lowest, both of which the 1P status also was.
3) "The second to top tier in the Mileage Plus Program was the Million Miler status" (and that's a direct quote from the filing).
1) The contract was for 100% bonus RDMs for life rather than whatever the associated MP level gets.
2) The contract was for the second highest tier rather than the tier associate with 50K EQMs or the second lowest, both of which the 1P status also was.
3) "The second to top tier in the Mileage Plus Program was the Million Miler status" (and that's a direct quote from the filing).
May 26, 2012, 5:52 pm
#59
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SFO South Bay
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 3,052
believe for UA the average passenger rev has been around 12+ cpm (or cpBIS)for the past few years (and other legacy airlines were similar). With no data, I would suspect the average business flyer is above that level (based on assuming the leisure flyer makes better use of advance fares and is picker on choosing flights on cost).
May 26, 2012, 6:11 pm
#60
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,854
I was / am at 90+% economy and not adjusting for inflation am running 13+cpm (20 years) and with inflation I'm sure that that would approach 20+ cpm.